Owl Fisher in the Guardian

[EverylittleAlps]

When feminism supports trans rights, everybody wins – just like in Iceland

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/feminism-trans-rights-iceland-uk-movements?

From the article: "Transphobia [...] is deeply rooted in outdated gender norms and misogyny. "

I don't get how transphobia can be rooted in misogyny. Could someone explain this to me?

‘When feminism supports trans rights, everybody wins – just like in Iceland”

Yup it’s womens job to support trans rights, trans people are under no obligation to return the favour.

How do some people get column inches? Really - do the know where actual bodies are buried?

That kind of desperate, eye-rolling, sighing exasperation is evident if you watch Fox and Owl's youtube stuff, particularly the 'response' videos, which include one responding to a Mumsnet thread about the excreble drama Butterfly.

They read out of context comments, in an intonation that shows they haven't really RTFT, and sort of tut and shake their heads without ever seeming to grasp the arguments and points they are 'responding' to.

It's like Kevin the Teenager has become an accepted intellectual style of discourse.

But I thought that Owl was “non-binary”? I can’t keep up!

Yes, I believe both Fox and Owl now claim the label NB. I suspect that, like the grifters they are, they saw the way the linguistic winds were blowing in the trans movement and that the next shift was that NB was going to be top of the pile.

Why just be a lesbian when you can be a transman? Why be a transman when you can be a trans man? And why be a trans man when you can be non binary?

BeMoreMagdalen what is also curious is that Owl tends to dominate the conversation with Fox barely getting a word in.

As if she is a man talking over a woman.

Pity really, as Fox seems more interesting and brighter.

Actually, that's not quite accurate. They collect all the labels like badges. They don't lay many of them down, because it may prove useful to whip them out when strategically useful...

Needmore, I agree actually, in terms of dynamics and in your assessment of the relative brightness. Neither seem particularly blessed in that department, though.

Aren’t ferret and vole a couple?

Man and woman have sex. Stop the Press! They are trying so hard, bless ‘em.

I watched a weird on-line documentary some time ago which had them in a small West Country market town leading chants of Transwomen are Women, Transmen are Men to bemused shoppers. Fox was asked what they would be doing if they were not "campaigning" and suggested their interest lay in handicraft (can't remember whether it was pottery, carpentry or something). They gave the impression that that was what they would prefer to be doing and that grifting did not come naturally. I sensed that Fox will have a life after the circus moves out of town. I'm less sure about Owl.

Which is which again? So they self ID as woodland creatures?

But it has a population of only 300k. Everyone knows everyone else, so levels of trust are high. There are just over 100 prisoners in the entire country.

Mind. Blown.

It’s a bit different from here, then.

It's like Kevin the Teenager has become an accepted intellectual style of discourse. 😂 😂

But that’s actually true of the whole transactivist movement. It’s all Kevin the Teenager given ludicrous, terrifying amounts of power and gone horribly, horribly wrong.

Fekko Fox is the female one and Owl is the male one. (In the literal, biological sense, that is, not the “Karen White, a transgender female” looking-glass sense.)

Of all the things I have learned about Fox and Owl that haven't enhanced my life at all, whether or not they actually identify as woodland animals is mercifully, as yet, not one.

Should be Vixen then. Dumb vole.

They did a brain fart at DS school. I was most unimpressed. But then they have all sorts speaking there. The kids are told to be polite...

Also long long winters. It is a lot further north than Scotland. Icelandic saga are amazing. Men spent their summers "raiding" so the women were left to manage the farm, and thus enjoyed a fair degree of status and independence. Urbanisation only happened post WW2, with the dramatic impact of large US and British bases, and up to then belief in trolls and spirits was common. If you like scanic detective novels I can recommend Arnaldur Indriðason who captures the spirit of his country well. Thermal energy (the country sits at the meeting point of two large continental plates) means the country is self sufficient in power, and swimming in heated pools is popular. (You have to shower naked beforehand, women on one side, men on the other - I don't know where Owl fits in.) Just about every hamlet has a covered football pitch, and football is seen as much a girls sport as a boys. And if you ever find yourself in the north I can recommend Akureyri Fish and Chips. Best cod ever.

Iceland boasts the world's first parliament. It also hosts an amazing genetic database Íslendingabók, with half the country signed up. It helps that it is a small country with relatively little diversity, though it appears that roughly half of the DNA comes from Irish slaves. This allows research into genetic links to diseases etc, but also helps ensure that Icelanders don't marry their cousins.

And yes. Bjork is pure Icelander, not from an indigenous Arctic tribe.

Iceland is a lot more interesting than Fox!

A used tea bag is more interesting...

A mixed sex couple who don't want to conform to gender stereotypes.... if they ever grow up they might realise they're ordinary. Just another pair of closet heterosexuals.

I read an excellent book called Burial Rites set in Iceland. Highly recommended.

The Greenlanders by Jane Smiley is wonderful.

I read it years ago, but it is one of those books that sticks with you.

(OK not Iceland, but not too far away.)

Mr Fekko and I now self ID as a pair of curtains and a small teapot. Be are Very Very special indeed. Fekkoson is now a garlic bulb.

Time to change your name? Fekko the teapot.

Continuing on the Icelandic theme I saw "Arctic" at last year's London Film Festival. Ok, though a bit bleak.

I've been to Greenland.

Well, briefly in its airport terminal, while a plane to Canada refuelled as happened back in the 70s.

It's not a very interesting anecdote, but yet I thought it might enliven the thread.