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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Right' to sex for PWD

39 replies

emerencemaybehopeful · 03/09/2019 00:21

dpoa.org.au/joint-position-statement-a-call-for-a-rights-based-framework-for-sexuality-in-the-ndis/

I don't have the words to express why I'm so upset.

There are arguments in every disabilty group I'm in right now. All full of people claiming sex is a right and/or need and that the government should fund it for people with disabilities.

And the organisations that purport to represent us are calling for just that.

I feel really really sick about this.

And I need sane people to come and tell me that I'm not overreacting.

This is a logical consequence of decriminalising 'sex work'.

The insistence is that disability is a barrier to finding a consensual sex partner. that therefore the ndis* scheme that was devised to cover the 'reasonable and necessary' additional costs that are caused by the disabilty should cover costs of using a sex worker (why not just accept that they want a live toy).

There are apparently agencies setting up to train prostitutes to work with this share of the market.

I truly don't think that anyone has thought through exactly where the line goes when deciding if disability is the barrier. But I bet many incels would embrace a diagnosis if it came with free access to women's bodies.

And so many prostituted women have disabilities. But the organisations who represent us don't fucking care. They are too busy wanting a fuck.

  • Australian National Disabilty Insurance Scheme.
OP posts:
MockersthefeMANist · 04/09/2019 13:37

If I was disabled and in receipt of shag allowance, would I be allowed to spend it on crisps?

MouthyHarpy · 05/09/2019 02:42

This isn't about PWD. It's about MWD.

That was exactly my first thought.

There is a discussion to be had about the ways in which abled society regards the sexuality of (some) people with disabilities. But regarding sex as a human right is not that discussion.

emerencemaybehopeful · 05/09/2019 09:17

Thanks @hoodathunkit

I got angry enough to write things.

Including a very basic template letter that members of orgs that sighed the joint agreement can send.

People are terrified of being called swerf.

They don't want to use their own names.

It's really scary to see how many women are afraid to speak in public.

OP posts:
HermioneWeasley · 05/09/2019 09:27

You are right to be appalled

I worry about exploitation of carers, the disables that’s attitude that people with disabilities are fundamentally unattractive, and tax payer money being used to rape vulnerable women.

No part of it is a good idea

hoodathunkit · 05/09/2019 11:14

This isn't about PWD.

It's about MWD.

I would respectfully disagreee with this

Extremely vulnerable people, male and female, are being exploited by sinister networks that aim to undermine democracy.

This exploitation of PWD is just one aspect of a greater trend.

I actually know several people with disabilities, male and female, who got involved with Tuppy Owens and her various apparently empowering but actually exploitative projects.

I cannot say too much as it would be extremely outing and my siutation is precarious / dangerous.

The same thing that is happening to all women is happening to women with disabilities only more so.

The prevalent narrative, and this is extremely important, is that wonderful things have been stolen from you by evil powers that be.

In the case of women, this narrative has its roots (at least as far as I can demonstrate) to a fetishised / sexualised / idealised model of "Oriental" spirituality that goes back to the 19th century and is probably much older.

Of particular interest is the Tantrik Order of the West started by Pierre Barnard (aka The Omnipotent Oom). Barnard's Tantrik Order attracted various heiresses, magnates and movers and shakers in the early 20th Century. Many scandals arose as one would expect.

A book that provides a fascinating insight into the early history of westernised tantric sex cults can be read here

www.scribd.com/doc/131956620/Marion-Dockerill-My-Life-in-a-Love-Cult

Anyone interested in the forerunners to Epstein's criminal network and NXIVM will find it a fascinating read.
The author's sister was involved with Crowley as a "scarlet woman" and the author herself with with Pierre Barnard and various other similar grifters.

The narrative tone is interesting. The author consders herself to be a sexually liberated and empowered woman but is clearly in the grip of multiple delusions about supernatural phenomena.

Given the narrative voice is is fascinating to read her accounts and concerns about various criminals using spirituality to dupe their victims.

The author appears to understand that people, mostly women, are being duped and exploited, yet is unable to relinquish her bizarre beliefs, possibly due to their narcissistically gratifying elements.

The same kinds of beliefs can be found in some old Russian sex cults.

So back to this idea that something wonderful has been stolen from you by evil "others"

In various sex cults throught history this wonderful thing that has been stolen is bliss / ecstasy / an authentic and wonderful sex life.

Of course there is an element of truth in this. Society is sexually repressive. Women's sexuality in particular has been the subject of collective anxiety, probably in relation to anxieties about infidelity and paternity of offspring.

I suspect that it is true that every woman on the planet understands, somewhere deep within herself, that society considers her sexuality as a dangerous force to be contained and controlled.

This understanding makes women extremely vulnerable to manipulation by cults who posit that women's "birthright" of blissful living / wonderful orgasms and ecstatic living has been stolen by evil oppressors.

Esalen, the Human Potential Movement and various dangerous cults and schools of quack psychotherapy have taken this concept and run with it.

Tuppy Owens' various exploitative organisations have successfully recruited vulnerable PWD to be her mascots and human shields.

These people believe that they are fighting for rights and entitlements that evil oppressors would love to deny them.

One former acquaintance of mine, a vulnerable disabled female with a history of being sexually taken advantage of by uncaring able-bodied men, is a poster girl for Tuppy's various projects. I have no doubt that she is being exploited but, as so often happens in these kinds of situations, she says she feels empowered.

In these kinds of situations the puppet masters will have a selection of vulnerable people, often female, who will defend their activities.

Tuppy's TLC organisation advertises various male sex workers who provide service to female clients.

The commercialisation of female sexuality in recent years has produced various narratives that promote all kinds of wierd and not so wonderful sexual practices as things women are entitled to enjoy and are missing out on if we don't get involved.

I am significantly more liberal re sex and sexuality than many posters here. I do not consider whatever consenting adults get up to sexually as my business.

However I find the vast array of quack products and surgeries marketed to women to be indicative of a novel modus operandi of controlling women and women's sexuality.

At one extreme there is FGM, women not permitted to travel without a male relative etc. and at the other we have women like Naomi Woolf and others paying for sexual services from Mike Lousada, a deeply concerning individual with multiple links to criminal cults.

With feminism we have one extreme where women taking about their fantasies and sex lives are reprimanded (they would say "kink shamed") and where women's sexual fantasies are denied and on the other there is an encouragement (training courses even - see Epstein and various "tantric' cults) for women to be so sexually uninhibited that they lose all sense of right and wrong and end up defending rapists and paedohiples.

Surely there is a "Goldilocks zone" somewhere in the middle where we are curious about women's sexuality, where we allow free and open discussion (when safe to do so), where we recognise that fantasies do not necessarily indicate someone being a bit "rapey" or actually wanting to enact any of the content of the fantasy?

Speaking as someone who worked in mental health for many years I can confidently share that many people's sexual fantasies are highly politically incorrect. It is far from uncommon for women to fantasise about being sexually violated. This does not mean that these women actually want to be sexually violated. Obviously.

I am wondering whether the relucatance to explore female sexuality by feminism (apart from "sex positive" feminism which seems to have become assocaited with cults) has left women at risk of brainwashing and exploitation?

I appreciate that this may be seen as a provocative post. I am late, as usual, and will not be able to post again for a while.

Just sharing some thoughts and experiences.

hoodathunkit · 05/09/2019 11:18

just a very quick post

This idea that your birthright has been stolen from you by the powers that be can be found in trangender narratives where lawyers are encouraging vulnerable people to take legal action over perceived violations of their rights.

This narrative is also prevalent amongst many pro-brexit activists. Those Europeans are stealing from us, they take all our money, tell us what to do yadda yadda. None of these people that I have listened to have the first clue about the complexities of the situation.

Of course is brexit happens and it all goes tits up it will be those evil Europeans who are to blame.

depressing

Lumene · 05/09/2019 14:32

@hoodathunkit do you have any more information on shady goings on in the human potential movement? I ask because I have been around some of the edges of this and felt a bit unsure about it all.

hoodathunkit · 06/09/2019 10:30

Lumene

It is always a pleasure to be able to help others by answering questions, however at the moment I am very pushed for time as I have a lot of thoughts and data relating to brexit that I need to post ASAP.

Also I feel that it is much more conducive to learning for people to make their own discoveries.

However I cannot resist sharing this brief article that mentions a belief in satanic cults that have the ability to erase memories

www.scientificamerican.com/article/mr-skeptic-goes-to-esalen/

and this important article on the history of Esalen (worth paying attention to the details)

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7P4Zm__JVwUJ:throughyourbody.com/esalen-institute-hilarious-one-writers-very-british-path-to-human-transformation-on-californias-rocky-coast/+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7P4Zm__JVwUJ:throughyourbody.com/esalen-institute-hilarious-one-writers-very-british-path-to-human-transformation-on-californias-rocky-coast/+&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

Just as a foundation for further research, in relation to Esalen, the mind/body issue, sex cults and the satanic panic and associated iatrogenic conditions of MPD/DID I would strongly recommending using google and the wayback machine or archive to research and preserve data relating to the following issues:

Deepak Chopra - new age mind/body medicine quack, endorsed by Oprah Winfrey (a really bad sign, Oprah has a bit of a thing for wronguns sadly)

Dr Dan Siegel - an apparently reputable professor of psychiatry who has gone over to the dark side. An associate of Chopra and a VIP within the notorious ISSTD. A very interesting person indeed.

Bessel van der Kolk - a psychiatrist sacked from his own organisation for bullying female staff members, he has a history of fraudulent research and is married to a trainer for the notorious Source School of Tantra (she is also a licensed social worker, EMDR therapist and a therapist using Internal Family Systems - a therapy central to multiple lawsuits regarding false memories including of satanic ritual abuse).
Van Der Kolk is an absolutely fascinating person. If you did not know anything about the controversial aspects of his life you might be tempted to drink the Kool Aid and believe his various claims to be a world leading authority on trauma and body/mind science. Anyone interested in the batshit insane world of new age mind/body woo and / or how grifters and perpetrators attempt to deflect blame from themselves by falsely accusing innocents, van der Kolk is a POI.

Charles Muir - founder of the Source School of Tantra. Associate of Van Der Kolk’s wife Betta de Boer van der Kolk (aka VanderKolk). I am not going to say anything about Muir. Readers can make their own minds up having viewed evidence of his activities all over the www. OK I cannot help but mention that there are allegations of rape and sexual assault facing a male teacher at the Source School of Tantra.

Laura Bass and Ellen Davis - authors of the extremely dangerous book The Courage To Heal, a book that states that many people have been sexually molested and raped as children but cannot remember it and should enter therapy to try to recover the memories. Neither Bass nor Davis possess any mental health skills or qualifications. This book has torn families apart and destroyed people’s lives.

On a bit of a tangent, a significant promoter of this odious book is none other than the founder of NAPAC Mr Peter Saunders. The Courage to Heal and its similarly batshit spinoff publications have been enthusiastically promoted by NAPAC,

source:
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20190826111227/napacsview.blogspot.com/2010/03/attacks-by-enemy.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20190826111227/napacsview.blogspot.com/2010/03/attacks-by-enemy.html
NAPAC recommends books about recovering memories from the body, written by quacks Peter Levine and Bessel van der Kolk
<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2YS1GPIESacJ:napac.org.uk/project_category/books/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2YS1GPIESacJ:napac.org.uk/project_category/books/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

I cannot access the wayback machine at the moment but the NAPAC website has been saved there many times by me and others and the promotion of TCTH can be found easily

Peter Saunders wrote the forward to a historically important document in relation to the farcical Operation Midland and the outrageous false allegation of Carl Beech aka “Nick” (who incidentally demonstrates many indicators of being an hysteric) that caused untold misery to many innocent people including an elderly war hero who was struggling to care for his dementia affected wife.

The document can be perused here - it is heartbreaking to note that on page 27 (slide 16 of 18) Jersey care leavers who experienced or were concerned about non-recent child sexual abuse were recommended none other than The Courage to Heal and The Courage to Heal Workbook as appropriate reading material. There is other material of interest in this document.

issuu.com/survivorswy/docs/jcla_self_help-2

This raises a centrally important issue, that is that quacks who peddle therapies that create false memories not only harm fasely accused innocents, they harm real survivors of sexual abuse whose narratives will be subject to skepticism should their connections to therapists be revealed. The only people to win from this situation are hysterics, grifters, quacks, dishonest lawyers and child abusers.

Peter Saunders was recently suspended from NAPAC and forced to resign from the IICSA because of a “drunken mistake”. The mistake started when he saw a woman on the BBC talking about being abused as a child. He contacted her with a view to asking her to work for NAPAC - this in itself is an extremely unusual way of recruiting staff surely? He met with the woman and her friend for coffee and then they went to a restaurant where they dined and consumed 3 bottles of wine, all paid for on a NAPAC credit card. Then, depending on who you believe, Saunders either sexually assaulted the woman or she initiated performing a sex act on him in the restaurant toilets. I cannot claim to know who is telling the truth, however the unorthodox manner of staff recruitment, the paying for jollies on a credit card of a child abuse charity and then, even if it was consensual, engaging in a sex act with a vulnerable CSA survivor, all does not bode well for Saunders’ character IMO.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/25/child-abuse-charity-boss-resigns-government-inquiry-sexual-encounter/

Back to Esalen

googling for Esalen and tantra and Esalen and shamanism brings up some real stinkers.

as for the Brexit - Esalen link - watch this space

I’ll end with this excellent video from the Grey Faction on Bessel van der Kolk

Lumene · 06/09/2019 11:50

Thanks Hooda really appreciate it.

hoodathunkit · 06/09/2019 12:31

You're welcome Lumene

While I'm here, Marc Gafni also has multiple links to batshit therapists creating false memories of satanic ritual abuse, neo-tantra and Esalen.

He is also a child molester.

Definitely a POI

He has a tangential link to Jimmy Savile - I wonder whether some clever person can discover it?

Bye for now

FlyingOink · 06/09/2019 14:44

I can get behind the notion that people should have the right to privacy in sexual matters, whether that is half an hour's peace and quiet to masturbate or the care worker not mentioning some sexts she'd seen on the disabled person's phone.
But nobody has a right to sex. Being disabled doesn't take away your "right to sex" any more than being ugly, fat, geographically isolated, socially awkward, or gay in an entirely straight community.
Incels will 100% claim an autism diagnosis for a paid-for prostituted woman to see to their desires. It'll be the subject of memes mocking Australia for years. If you don't believe me, pop a thread up on 4chan. They still talk about Canadians being into bestiality since that was removed from the list of crimes.
Nobody is entitled to sex. What next? Full "girlfriend experience" from the prostituted women because these men don't get enough affection? An automated phone line that blurts out "yes dear" at regular intervals? Someone to buy, write and send your mum's birthday card because you don't have a wife to do it?

FlyingOink · 06/09/2019 17:29

I've just thought of another aspect. Presumably the "right to sex" involves being able to specify exactly what kind of sex, right?
So if a prostituted woman refused to pretend she was a little girl or refused anal or refused scat play, would the disabled man have a legal case to complain she was discriminating by failing to provide a government-paid sexual service?
How specific is the supposed "right to sex"? Does he get to specify her looks? Or specify an individual?
The idea that it's a tearful lonely little man in an wheelchair, and a "tart with a heart" has a warm conversation with him and gives him a handy, is sugarcoating the unpalatable. And even that "nice" scenario is awful. What happens to the tearful lonely little woman in a wheelchair? (Apart from being at high risk of being abused by caregivers that is). Fuck all, because she's a woman and therefore doesn't have "needs".

hoodathunkit · 07/09/2019 08:08

Just a little correction to an earlier post where I said

Dr Dan Siegel - an apparently reputable professor of psychiatry who has gone over to the dark side. An associate of Chopra and a VIP within the notorious ISSTD. A very interesting person indeed.

Dr Dan Siegel is a person of interest, apparently reputable and well qualified, however he is extremely involved in the ISSTD and has a history of involvement at Esalen.

I was confusing him, re the association with Deepak Chopra, with another person of interest, the neuroscientist Rudolph Tanzi.

Siegal has appeared alongside Chopra at various events and they endorse one another on social media but I have no indication of them collaborating together, unlike Tanzi who is well known for working collaboratively with Chopra.

Rudolph Tanzi is extremely important because of him having one foot in the world of evidence based neuroscience and the other in the world of batshit new age woo.

Tanzi and Chopra appear to be benefitting from an entrepreneurial empire centered around some extremely strange and unscientific ideas that are of extreme interest to gender critical readers

This is intersting, just for starters

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:itfyYyjXuV4J:spiritualityisnoexcuse.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/dr-rudolph-tanzis-rainbow-bridge-to-quackery/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:itfyYyjXuV4J:spiritualityisnoexcuse.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/dr-rudolph-tanzis-rainbow-bridge-to-quackery/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

hoodathunkit · 07/09/2019 08:56

Also, just briefly, re the Human Potential Movement (HPM)

Decades ago when I was working in the NHS the WHO was examining and redefining the concept of "health"

"The meaning of health has evolved over time. In keeping with the biomedical perspective, early definitions of health focused on the theme of the body's ability to function; health was seen as a state of normal function that could be disrupted from time to time by disease. An example of such a definition of health is: "a state characterized by anatomic, physiologic, and psychological integrity; ability to perform personally valued family, work, and community roles; ability to deal with physical, biological, psychological, and social stress".[3] Then in 1948, in a radical departure from previous definitions, the World Health Organization (WHO) proposed a definition that aimed higher: linking health to well-being, in terms of "physical, mental, and social well-being, and not merely the absence of disease and infirmity".[4] Although this definition was welcomed by some as being innovative, it was also criticized as being vague, excessively broad and was not construed as measurable. For a long time, it was set aside as an impractical ideal and most discussions of health returned to the practicality of the biomedical model.[5]

Just as there was a shift from viewing disease as a state to thinking of it as a process, the same shift happened in definitions of health. Again, the WHO played a leading role when it fostered the development of the health promotion movement in the 1980s. This brought in a new conception of health, not as a state, but in dynamic terms of resiliency, in other words, as "a resource for living". 1984 WHO revised the definition of health defined it as "the extent to which an individual or group is able to realize aspirations and satisfy needs and to change or cope with the environment. Health is a resource for everyday life, not the objective of living; it is a positive concept, emphasizing social and personal resources, as well as physical capacities".[6] Thus, health referred to the ability to maintain homeostasis and recover from insults. Mental, intellectual, emotional and social health referred to a person's ability to handle stress, to acquire skills, to maintain relationships, all of which form resources for resiliency and independent living.[5] This opens up many possibilities for health to be taught, strengthened and learned."

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health

This change was probably influenced by the HPM

Central concepts within the HPM include the following:

Humans are only living to a very limited extent compared to our potential (some claim that we only use 10% or 20% or whatever % of our brain - completely untrue but meh)

Humans are on the brink of a paradigm shift and the next stage of evolution, but you have to be "awakened".

We should not aim simply to be free from disease and misery but aspire to be happy / ecstatic. The HPM has spawned a variety of not for profits, charities, campaigning groups and businesses all geared towards happiness. Many of them are dodgy in various intersting ways.

Positive thinking / fake it till you make it. You can imagine your way to health, happiness and success via the power of thought. Abundance is all around you if you only stop yourself from hijacking yourself with doubts and critical thinking.

People suffer from blockages that need to be cleared out, these blockages occur in a liminal stage of the body/mind, once the badness has been evacuated the goodness can flow and the human is awakened / activated / evolved

An overwhelming sene of entitlement to steal and appropriate elements of the cultures of oppressed peoples. Basically fake shamans, fake native American tribes, fake curanderos, people falsely claiming that they are Maya, Cherokee, Sami, (insert oppressed indigenous / tribal people here).

Contemporary perverted / appropriated / reinvented ancient rituals and spriritual systems, often combined with quack psychotherapy. Beware of psychotherapists / new age healers claiming to use Taoism, Buddhism, Sufism, shamanism, Asatru, Druidry, Wicca, tantra, mystical Christianity, (the list is endless) as a foundation for psychotherapy. Obviously therapists can believe whatever they want in their private lives. Combining spiritual and supernatural beliefs with psychotherapy is a red flag. When a therapist or healer claims to be experienced in a number of different raditions and uses a synchretic approach - multiple red flags.

HPM buzzwords
awakened
evolution / evolutionary
paradigm shift
detox
the shift
wellness
mindfulness
authentic
juicy
nourishing
Yes!

and of course, finally, possibly the greatest influencer of the HPM was Willhelm Reich

also of interest the free love hippy commune / cult Zegg and the paedophile performance artist and cult leader Otto Muehl

With a little digging readers will find the same fascinating combination of neuroscience, psychiatry, psychotherapy, theatre, art, yoga, faux shamanism, heiresses, royalty, politicians, quacks, paedophiles and other criminals that will, over time, surface in relation to the Jeffrey Epstein network.

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