Johnson to pitch TRA backlash as part of GE campaign?

[RedToothBrush]

Faisal Islam@faisalislam
“Number 10 has been polling “culture war” issues, such as transgender rights, to see whether they can be weaponised against Labour in northern working-class constituencies” says the Times’ ⁦*@RSylvesterTimes*⁩

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e654014e-cd99-11e9-bfe0-b5ac4ce6ca95
Boris Johnson’s luck might be about to run out

Didn't see that coming a mile off...

I agree with the poster who said that any party that recognises and states clearly that woman = adult human female is an open goal in terms of getting thousands of votes from ordinary people who are fed up of the insanity. I am not voting until a party remembers what a woman is.

Hm. Is this political cabal really competent to make this an election issue? For one thing, the barrage of "policy" coming at us, the electorate, is overwhelming, and "yet another policy" is not what is required for a policy position on this. If "transwomen are women" is a meaning-obscuring conversation-stopper, surely any clumsy, Boris-blethering "transwomen aren't women" would have a similarly simplistic effect? Most people don't even understand what GC people and TRAs are on about: it really does go over their heads (and we all have so much experience with letting "Brexit" go over our heads to protect our own sanity that this will definitely happen for many). Don't get me wrong: I'd be very glad to have a party to come out on the gender critical side and force the other parties to be explicit about their positions (sort of like what an Opposition ought to do... but hasn't been doing). However, given Boris's heedless incompetence in making things worse for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliff, I really question his competence to get this right without poisoning the gender critical position.

Part of the reason we are where we are politically both here and across the pond is because of such a lack of education and critical thinking that people blanket assume that the left is automatically "good" and the right "bad".

People, life, issues and political parties are not so simple, as Labour's (and in the US the Democrats') obscene deference to anti-semites proves. Equally, the right - who traditionally believe in small government - are historically staunch defenders of freedom of speech, even if you may not like their other policies on privatisation etc. I have no doubt Boris Johnson, if he survives Brexit, would shut down TRA, anti-science nonsense and if he did it wouldn't be purely because it's a vote-winner, but because it's what he really believes.

To be clear what I mean about poisoning: this isn't an easy "gotcha." Transpeople are people. Their cause has been entwined with LGB. Their cause has been entwined with some form of feminism. There is no "nuking this issue" without massive collateral damage. This is a matter for diplomacy, or maybe patient litigation, not warfare. It probably isn't in Brinkmanship Boris's nature, but a calm assertion of boundaries is a far better and more winning position than "weaponising."

@riot
yep. there's massive collateral damage.
but the matter is-what i understand- the latter, the more massive damage will come.

if what i saw in mumsnet, gender critical thread, things happening canada are real, how can we assert boundaries?

all org are pro trans.(except religious one)/ can't speak up(because people are so scared)/media is pro trans ...

simply how?

in canada soon sogi123 will start.
and uk will follow.(i guess)

next generation will not understand difference between man and woman.(even now adults are acting like can't understand that)
so next generation, they simply can't.

school say that, media say that, gov say that, activist say that.

why they need to assert boundaries?
in youtube, there's some video interviewing people
'is it fair trans woman be in woman's sports?'
college student say that 'man, woman have no difference.'

i'm scared pessimist.
(i'm not from uk, i'm not good at english sorry)

The big surprise really was Theresa May letting Penny Maudant run with GRA reform as she did. Boris reining in aspects of transgenderism, would be a more natural Tory position.

I agree. It was hard for May and Mordaunt to do a public U-turn on any of this. A new PM gives the Conservatives an excuse to do just that; they will be fully aware of the public change in awareness/mood.

Let's not forget, Mordaunt lost the Equalities job after all on Day 1..….

Mrs Gove is also GC, so I'd like to think she has been able to bend a few ears too.

@skql oh, I'm not saying we shouldn't fight. I was questioning whether an intervention by him like the one indicated in the article, will be decisive and/or (given his history).

Ugh if they go this way the UK will soon follow the USA with the trans issue being one no one will touch publicly who is my already far right politically.

The old “if trump says the sky is blue it must be green” thing.

Stonewall's reaction to any proposed changes in policy will be interesting. There's an Interim Chief Executive in place now, following Hunt's departure. He's a PR wonk, so one would like to think he is aware of the current state of play.

uk.linkedin.com/in/paul-twocock-06625213

I've been working for some time that the shortsightedness of the woke liberal identity crowd makes the subject rife for exploitation politically by individuals who don't give a shit about either women or trans people.

I'm with Red and the prescient Lisa Muggeridge.

I very much doubt Boris himself gives a shiny shit about trans issues. If anything, he'd be in favour - he's a right wing liberal who likes deregulating stuff, including male sexuality. He's not a social conservative. But certainly happy enough to pretend to be one if it's electorally advantageous.

I've been watching government petitions. There is by-constituency view and if you check any Woke-themed petition, the lowest levels of engagement are always in Labour marginal/Tory target seats.

It's not just Brexit: the whole Woke agenda is unpopular in Labour's most vulnerable seats. Lisa Nandy has been trying to tell the party this for some time but the Woke activist base has just shoved its fingers in its ears and continued to shout gammon.

If I were Boris, I'd be all over it like a rash.

Please don't think this is just about getting people to vote Tory.

It's not.

It's also about depressing the vote on the left and centre and reducing turnout.

Vast swathes of the public are sick to the back teeth of identity politics generally and in real life I barely know a soul who supports TWAW. I'm in what used to be Labour heartland Red Clydeside, not a Tory area by any means.

However, thinking trans ideology is ridiculous doesn't mean seeing the longer term dangers, most people don't give it much thought at all, it isn't a priority, more yet another issue where the 'elite' are out of touch with ordinary people.

Sadly I think people are more likely to vote in droves on anti-muslim sentiment than anti-trans privilege sentiment.

As for Boris, he is only out for Boris, if he mentions trans privilege at all it will likely be a minor part of a wider anti-identity politics message.

Agree with riot that this would cause huge collateral damage. If Johnson takes this into a mainstream culture war, the gender critical feminist perspective will be pushed out from the left (by the woke) and right (by the male entitlement crew). Look how few out gender critical voices there are in the US compared to the UK, that's what Trump weaponising it as an issue achieved.

Not only that Lang Cleg.

If there is a seat where there is a hint of being 'Gammon' the response of Labour is to say 'we need more wokeness. We must enforce and stamp out wokeness'. Which has a very counter productive response.

So the idea that Johnson is going to persue trans gender issues is merely going to result in the woke crowd shouting TWAW louder... Which is a gift to Johnson.

Paul Brand @paulbranditv
A reminder that there are no LGBT members of Boris Johnson’s cabinet and soon no LGBT Conservatives in major leadership positions in the party.

Possibly not accidentally...

Tim Shipman @shippersunbound
I don’t think we’ve ever heard a political interview like Philip Hammond just now. Cold fury. A party in full blown civil war. The future of the country now a winner takes all battle to the end

It's also about depressing the vote on the left and centre and reducing turnout.

Yes!

So the idea that Johnson is going to persue trans gender issues is merely going to result in the woke crowd shouting TWAW louder... Which is a gift to Johnson.

And yes!

And I'd emphasise - there's no way Boris is "GC". He's a liberal deregulator, both socially and economically. If he pursues this, it's pure populist electioneering.

Eleni Courea @elenicourea
Spoke to Tory assoc chairmen who were furious about the threat to deselect their MPs:

Robert Craig, Penrith & the Border: “We seem to have this dictatorship emerging out of No 10 that is running roughshod over people that were effectively in the cabinet not long ago at all.”

That be Rory Stewart Country.

Sorry I'm posting on wrong thread!!

We can wish politicians did the right thing because it’s the right thing to do until we have no breathe left, it’s simply not what we are ever going to see under this left v right political system. There will always be issues like this that are just about votes.

I replied to the link left here a while ago with Boris asking for our opinions and what issues we were most concerned about, a few women here did. The only issue I raised was this, focussing on the rights of women to be safe, to be respected and to sex being recognised in law as separate to gender identity. I think just maybe he got quite a few messages like that.

If Johnson takes this into a mainstream culture war, the gender critical feminist perspective will be pushed out from the left (by the woke) and right (by the male entitlement crew).

And on to the right wing backlash that many of us actual rather than Woke, leftists have been predicting.

One day, the liberal left will wish it had listened to feminists (if it ever becomes capable of self reflection, which, frankly, I doubt).

According to one insider, Number 10 has been polling “culture war” issues, such as transgender rights, to see whether they can be weaponised against Labour in northern working-class constituencies but this would only reinforce the Tories’ reputation among metropolitan liberals as the “nasty party”.

Why does it make them the nasty party? Labour has people calling women misogynistic terms over this, expelling women even.

Stop forcing people to pretend that people can actually change sex. Trans people exist but no-one changes sex and anything on the school curriculum should reflect this message.
Unweaponise the police on this issue. You can't arrest or caution someone for saying a man is a man. Harassment is of course a different issue. Trans people should not be harassed and should be allowed to live their lives in peace like everyone else.
Walk back all the erroneous 'guidance' that confuses people and leaves children vulnerable. Create more unisex or gender neutral spaces alongside single sex ones.
Support the enforcement of the EA2010 esp in relation to same sex spaces
Moritarium on puberty blockers and properly funded counselling services for young people with gender identity issues. Watchful waiting encouraged for those with gender dysphoria. Drugs and surgery delayed until adulthood.

Yes I know the TRAs would be frothing at these suggestions but only total capitatulation is acceptable by them. However my reading of this issue over the past few years is that most members of the general public could live with the above and any politician adopting these principles would be onto a winner on these issues.

It's about perceptions from where you stand. They would be the nasty party to people who don't like them anyway and would never vote for them.

And that would illicit a response

That would look like anger at people just telling the truth to a group of potential swing voters.

Optics to different crowds matter.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter playing out in a GE campaign.

Johnson wants polarisation.

Feminists will be collateral damage in this but that's fine. Cummings and Johnson don't particularly like uppity women ruining their fun anyway.

In response to the Times story

Lisa Nandy @lisanandy
We have a long history of decency, tolerance and warmth in this town and we don’t take kindly to people who come here trying to cause trouble. Boris and his friends can take their hate elsewhere