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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

New EHRC guidance for schools

116 replies

emzvalentine · 28/08/2019 21:33

The EHRC has produced new guidance for transitioning pupils in Scottish schools, with English guidance to follow shortly.

Despite the recent calls for statutory codes for implementing the exceptions in the Equality Act, the EHRC has, once again, repeated a policy that fails to take into account the needs of girls, and defers to the trans organisations.

Details and link to the guidance document are on this thread:
twitter.com/VicM2019/status/1166808190983577608

OP posts:
Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 29/08/2019 16:50

Great comment Charlie. The leak is out there now and the guidance is awful. If they are threatening to exclude a group (most likely women and girls according to that tweet), that is despicable. However, other groups and individuals have every right to be furious about the process. Is there any reason to believe they were on point of completely revising it until today? Doubt it.

MrsSnippyPants · 29/08/2019 18:25

I can no longer see the Tweet from Women and Girls Scotland nor my response to it; has the Twitter thread been deleted or is Twitter playing silly buggers again?

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 29/08/2019 21:43

Like other posters have said public consultation doesn't work like this. Or At least it's not supposed to. The EHRC know this perfectly well.

Every single public consultation I've been involved with has put the information on their own website and that of partners & stakeholders.
Then gone out and met with representative groups and individuals.

It's also good practice to consider groups who are outside the usual information channels. In this situation I would suggest women's religious organisations and representatives for people with Autism as examples of people who should be reached out to.

A secret consultation isn't a consultation.

My only explanation for a women's group not wanting a robust consultation would be if they planned to mount a legal challenge on process at a later date.

But surely it's better to get it right in the first place?

NoBackboneNoGumption · 30/08/2019 16:28

What a bizarre thread!

Really not getting why we should keep quiet about this pile of hot shit in case someone somewhere is working secretly against it and we might fuck that up? That’s TRA mindfuck to a level I hadn’t expected!

stumbledin · 30/08/2019 19:21

Haven't followed this thread closely but the info / leak is in the public domain, eg article in the Telegraph (or is this yet another issue?) - link: www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/30/girls-schools-could-admit-trans-boys-proposals-considered-equalities/

If you cant access the full text but are on facebook go to WPUK facebook page where you can read the full text.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 22:28

It seems to me whatever Women’s group that may have been involved is being used by EHRC so they can say they consulted women’s groups. But by keeping the whole process confidential they don’t need to mention whether said women’s group disagrees with them and once published the implication is that they did. If they were actually prepared to listen to women they would not be doing this in secret.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 22:29

*implication is they agreed with EHRC

Birdsfoottrefoil · 30/08/2019 22:31

Why is the ‘Equality Watchdog’ being allowed to try and change the law?

ThePurported · 30/08/2019 22:50

And why are they trying to do it?

There are plenty of politicians who have been critical of the EHRC's record to date. It would be great if someone like Maria Miller woke up and saw how underhanded EHRC is being here. Not holding my breath given MM's own track record on women's rights and her gormless approach to anything involving 'trans'.

Candidpeel · 31/08/2019 00:34

Fairplay for Women has done a quick briefing on the biggest problems with the draft guidance fairplayforwomen.com/draft_ehrc_schools/

  1. SECRETS AND LIES The draft guidance suggests that schools should, if requested, keep a child’s sex secret from teachers and other pupils, and collude in lying about their sex.

“A group of pupils go on a school trip …the school considers the age group, privacy risks from sharing tents and the lack of awareness that the pupil is trans…. The trans pupil is satisfied that her trans status will not be disclosed by the arrangements. “ (page 27)

“School should not give the vaccination to a trans girl but should make suitable arrangements so that, if her birth sex is not widely known, it is not inadvertently revealed.” (page 29).

  1. PUSHING GIRLS OUT OF THEIR OWN CHANGING ROOMS The draft guidance says that male children who identify as girls should be allowed to use girls changing rooms and toilets. It suggests that if female children feel uncomfortable in this circumstance, they should be offered the choice of using a separate changing room (such as the disabled facilities).

“trans boys and trans girls can use the single-sex facilities that align with their gender identity if they wish to do so, A trans girl pupil opts to use the girls, changing room, and most of her fellow pupils are happy with this arrangement. However, one pupil is uncomfortable with this arrangement, so chooses to use the private changing room instead.” ( page 15)

  1. UNDERMINING FREEDOM OF THOUGHT AND SPEECH The guidance says teachers and other pupils must describe a male child as “she” and a female child as “he” ( or use ‘non-binary’ pronouns like ze, zir). It says that “appropriate steps” should be taken if a person refuses.

“If a pupil has legally changed their name, then the school must use the pupil’s new name and relevant pronoun.” (page 19)

“Concerns about repeated or deliberate use of a previous name or pronoun should be investigated and appropriate steps taken to address the issue” (page 20)

  1. NO MORE ALL FEMALE SPORTS The guidance says that schools cannot apply a ‘blanket policy’ of offering female only sports teams or sport competitions.

“If considering excluding a trans pupil as a competitor, schools should consider on a case-by-case basis objective evidence about whether inclusion would result in unfair competition”

“Schools should consider ways of enabling all pupils to participate in sports, including competitive events that align with their gender identity” (p24)

  1. PUTTING SINGLE SEX SCHOOLS IN DOUBT The leaked draft guidance says that a single sex school is likely to be discriminating if it does not admit pupils of the opposite sex who identify as transgender (i.e. treat a female child as if they were a boy and allow them into an all boys school on that basis).

“The school is likely to be discriminating against the trans pupil unless it can demonstrate its decision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.”(page 33)

“To meet the needs of and avoid disadvantage to trans pupils, schools should take a case-by-case approach to admission requests by trans pupils.”(page 33)

None of this is required by the Equality Act!

truthisarevolutionaryact · 31/08/2019 07:39

That's an excellent summary from FPFW. I will be writing to my MP - yet again - and asking why guidance in defiance of the equality act that removes so many rights from girls is being foisted on schools.

NeurotrashWarrior · 31/08/2019 07:47

Excellent analysis FPFW, thank you once again!

Bang on post and points CharlieParley.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/08/2019 08:06

Are any of the scenarios about a TRANS BOY and the accommodations boys will be expected to make?

NeurotrashWarrior · 31/08/2019 08:51

Yes this is always where it breaks down.

Certainly my son's primary school had a girls who identified as a boy in year 3. Now moved on. I don't know what their policy was. For example, the local swimming pool has sex segregated changing rooms and so they must have had to change in the girls. Or perhaps didn't go swimming.

NeurotrashWarrior · 31/08/2019 08:52

How exactly will the children do their growing up sessions for example?

Who ever wrote this hasn't got a clue about what it's actually like in schools nor how RSE and growing up lessons work.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 31/08/2019 08:54

Growing up sessions are transphobic and must be stopped, any books must be burnt.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/08/2019 09:04

No, Birds ALL BOOKS must be burned.

Turn off t'internet

No gatherings of more than 2 people

Schooling to be done via isolation pod, designed to safely admminister every emotional stimulus and social interaction required

Biology to become a privileged topic, Elite Thinkers only

I have said for eyars that late Victorian, early 20th century sci fi writers were Prescient Omnibeings and should be revered!

Bend thy knee to Wells, Burroughs, Niven, Powell, Asimov, Smith, Pohl et al

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 31/08/2019 09:39

Well done FPFW once again.

I can’t help wondering how the people who proposed this guidance think it would work in practice. So Jill goes home on Friday and returns on Monday as Jack. But the fact that Jill used to be Jack must be kept a secret and never disclosed ever even though all staff, pupils and parents know it.

It’s asking people collectively to lie.

Once again, where is the fucking safeguarding in that?

Birdsfoottrefoil · 31/08/2019 09:48

“Children, today we will learn that we must deny evidence of our own eyes and anything we thought we knew about someone and instead believe everything they tell us. If you don’t, it will be reported to the police as a hate incident.”

OldCrone · 31/08/2019 10:58

Growing up sessions are transphobic and must be stopped, any books must be burnt.

I've just come here from a thread in AIBU where another poster was arguing that any censorship of books was worrying, simply because some of us had suggested that the book 'I am Jazz' shouldn't be used in the classroom.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 31/08/2019 11:10

“Children, today we will learn that we must deny evidence of our own eyes and anything we thought we knew about someone and instead believe everything they tell us. If you don’t, it will be reported to the police as a hate incident.”

Another example. The year six residential room allocation is sent out. Mary’s mum notices that Mary is sharing with Jane and Jill. “Who’s Jill, asks Mary’s mum. Is she new?”

These guidelines can only have been developed by people who live in a woke echo chamber, working in organisations that have been captured to such an extent that when David Smith turns into Davina Sparkles everyone is to polite - or too scared - to acknowledge the truth.

It doesn’t mean we have had our memories wiped or believe for a nanosecond that Davina is a female.

ThePurported · 31/08/2019 11:22

The level of delusion is mind-boggling, you have to wonder who exactly wrote the guidance. It's not rooted in law or reality.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 31/08/2019 13:49

I think we need to put in proper complaints to the EHRC and then escalate it to the parliamentary and health service ombudsman