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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Inside the secret world of incels

95 replies

BlooperReel · 28/08/2019 15:13

Watching on catch up, has anyone else seen this?

It's a very disturbing insight into the incel 'communities', the deep rooted hatred of females is palpable, and it is all sexually motivated, all because women either have rejected them sexually or have no interest in them.

They have mothers, sisters for some etc, what has gone so wrong?

OP posts:
Richard2478 · 29/08/2019 10:56

@Someonetookmyusername I was cut out because I wasn't interesting enough. I had back up, my social worker talked to them and the Psychloist had a go at them for rushing the production.

Pota2 · 29/08/2019 10:56

Come on, that is really unfair to Richard. There are SO many comments on these boards that suggest that many women don’t like men as a group but they do like individual men. I hold my hand up- I am the same. Many women mistrust men because of ill treatment and abuse too and that is perfectly fine. I totally understand where Richard is coming from with that comment and it sounds like his life is tough enough as it is without being berated for not liking women as a class.

However, I think Richard maybe doesn’t represent the typical angry incel who hates women and thinks the world owes him something. But the people saying ‘go on a course to become confident’ often don’t have a clue. When you are disabled or have issues with social skills or don’t fit society’s ideal of a successful person, you can’t just wave a magic wand and make life better by going on a fricking course. These issues are far more deep-rooted. The people who say ‘just get out there’ are betraying the privileges they have (usually in terms of social skills rather than looks actually, before I get a slew of ‘I look like a sack of spuds but have never been single in my life’ comments).

Someonetookmyusername · 29/08/2019 11:04

Ok, I'm glad you have people supporting you.

Still not sure why they thought you were an incel though, if you're not on the forums or anything.

SuperFurryDoggy · 29/08/2019 11:08

Good point Pota2

There have been threads from women who have been unable to find relationships. It’s not always that easy. I think we (society we not women we) should steer clear of advising people how to get into relationships and instead offer support for people to find ways to build enriched, meaningful and joyful lives outside of relationships.

Pota2 · 29/08/2019 11:14

SuperFurry agree. We are told constantly that life is only meaningful if we have a partner. So for someone who can’t find that, for whatever reason, of course they will have feelings about that. It doesn’t necessarily mean that people owe you sex but surely people can have some empathy and think about how lonely it might be if you want a relationship but can’t find one and if you’re also constantly reminded that as a result of your lack of relationship, you’re a ‘loser’ and failing at life. Not everyone who is single is in that position because they are a horrible person that nobody wants to go near. And it’s not as straightforward as going on a course to learn to be different.

Obviously I think the misogynists online who think that they are owed a beautiful woman are awful. But there are some nasty comments on here directed towards a disabled man who is just being honest about his experience.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 29/08/2019 11:22

Richard came on this thread and announced he was an incel who doesn't like women as a group and called most 'incels' learning disabled.

He insulted women. He insulted people with learning disabilities. He did this on a feminism board. I'm mostly inclined to think he's a troll but if you want to 'help the poor incel' have at it.

Pota2 · 29/08/2019 11:30

I don’t think saying you don’t like women as a group is any more insulting than saying you don’t like men as a group or that you don’t trust them. Many people have said that on here. He said he had been filmed for the documentary, which was about incels. From what he has said on here, I don’t think he is the same as the men who think they are owed a highly attractive girlfriend.

I do feel for people who are disabled, lack social skills or are otherwise considered ‘undateable’ or whatever. I can also see why some of them become resentful although I don’t condone that behaviour. I don’t think empathy for others is a bad thing. I can also see why someone in that position would describe themselves as being involuntarily celibate.

ThePankhurstConnection · 29/08/2019 11:41

I just don't like women as a group I like women on a one on one basis.

That doesn't tell me WHY you don't like them, you are just repeating that you do - what are the reasons?

In what way does a group of women bother you? Why are individual women ok but as a group you have an issue.

Why?

So for example I have issues with men as a group because as a class they are responsible for the vast majority of violent and sexually violent crimes - that is is a reason. I have experienced this violence so a group of men I don't know makes me uneasy - expanding on the reason. What reasons do you have to dislike women.

If you can't identify the issues you can't work on them, overcome them and help yourself. Does that make sense? It doesn't have to be massive steps all at once tiny steps often can make a huge difference.

Or else you could just keep repeating you don't like them, do nothing about it apart from get butt hurt online and then blame women for your butt hurt, rinse repeat and get more and more angry. The change has to start with you.

Someonetookmyusername · 29/08/2019 11:45

ArnoldWhatshisknickers he's come on feminism chat to about this. I assume he knows we a hostile audience.

If we tell him to fuck off etc we are confirming his views on women. If talk to him we might learn about how men can become indoctrinated by the incel cult.

I dunno maybe I'm being a bit hearts and rainbows, but check out this:

AGnu · 29/08/2019 12:06

I was the "object" of an incel's attention at school. We'd barely had a conversation when we started being horrible to me. I genuinely had no idea he was actually interested in me until he wrote me a terrible poem about how I was too good for him. Not sure what that was supposed to do - pity date?! When I pointed out that he'd always been vile to me & so I wasn't really feeling like dating him he accused me of being "racist" we're both white & called me a bitch. Oh, ok then, I was mistaken, I must drop my knickers immediately... Hmm Tbh, I thought the whole thing was some weird joke until mutual friends told me how upset he was about it! Confused I really wasn't at all popular/particularly attractive so I don't know why he latched on to me.

I've just looked him up on Facebook & it seems he's not an "incel" anymore. He's in a relationship with someone whose FB informs me their pronouns are "she/her." Sooo... There's that... I just hope that he's not as abusive to "she/her" as he was to me. Would give "she/her" another thing to be angry about - "she/her" seems to be a very angry person. Maybe that's their common ground that they bonded over...

BlooperReel · 29/08/2019 12:15

@AGnu I experienced similar, thought the phrase Incel either wasn't in use then or was not well known. A boy I'd known since age 9. Socially awkward, on the fringe of my group of friends, never really tried to speak to me at all. One day he followe dme home from school (we were about 14) insisting he was 'walking me home', I was getting creeped out as she wouldn't go away. He followed me onto the stairwell of my building and assaulted me (over my clothing but still, horrific).

I fought him off and ran into my flat. I never spoke to him again and he never mentioned it or came near me, but a mutual friend tried to get me to sympathise because I had 'rejected' him!!!!

I have no idea what he is up to now but can certainly imagine he would be the 'incel 'type'.

OP posts:
sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 12:26

Women are not allowed to question men or their motives

Grin made me laugh

Lucky222 · 29/08/2019 12:46

There is no such thing as an incel. There is an entire class of women and girls trapped in sexual slavery in every country in the world, in order that no man with as little as a 5iver in his pocket need ever forego a sexual climax at the expense of a female human. Masturbation facilitation for men is also available free for anyone with an Internet connection (online pornography.)

These circumstances along with many other sexist, toxic aspects of our male supremacist society create A. Low empathy for women & girls in men, who do not connect to women through a feeling of shared humanity but an attitude of dominance B. Male entitlement to have their sexual needs met by attractive women and girls. This describes the basic male psychology, which is a narcissistic character structure. Incels are simply are more extreme presentation. In countries where sex industry is legalised the rates of men using prostituted WAG goes up to as high as 1 in 4 in Germany & 1 in 3 in Spain.

If you're feeling sorry for incels, who are abusive men, you are in my view displaying Stockholm syndrome, which is part of our condition as a class of people terrorised by male sexual violence. This is not meant to be snarky or judgemental a comment, I continue to struggle to unpack these tendancies in myself.

I am a female incel because I refuse to sleep with men who use porn or display any symptoms of misogyny & the pool of men I encounter due to chronic illness limitations is limited, & not tending to include the most enlightened ones. This means I haven't had sex or relationships in many years. I am also a in-non-mother. I really want a family & to have babies. There's not even a word for involuntarily not being able to mother children, because women aren't believed to be owed anything by men by society. When I try to date, I only really meet abusive men. I spoke to someone on a religious dating site recently who I'm pretty sure would have posed a serious threat to my safety had it progressed to a relationship stage. Unpacking men's compulsive lying (need to control your perceptions of them in order to stay in dominant position) is also a constant. This is normal' love life' stuff for me, having to weed out men that might eventually kill me. I can only imagine the male perspective that your biggest problem is potentially not being able to have sex (?!)

Despite this somewhat sad situation, I do not see myself as a victim, but rather a liberated, empowered woman who lives by her principles. I'd much rather have self respect to keep me warm at night rather than a wasteman's body.

I also own & recognise that law of attraction re my childhood templates re early life abuse has played a role in my romantic experiences. That being said I have done extensive self growth work over more than a decade, whilst my brother, who hasn't and who grew up in the same environment and had/has at least as many issues, has found a woman who treats him well in his first relationship. I think our sex is the main difference as to how he has avoided abusive experiences with intimate partners.

I would never identity as a female incel because I am socialised as female and therefore lack attitude of entitlement towards men. Incels biggest problem is their own self loathing & lack of awareness that that is the route of their issues. Most are able bodied & perfectly acceptable looking. They need to stop blaming & projecting their self hatred onto women & 'successful' men, and start working on why they really feel so badly about themselves. Therapy, trauma release work, men's emotional support groups (constructive ones) self help reading etc. If you deep down like & accept yourself, automatically you are attractive to others, because this kind of energy is magnetic. Incels 'problem' is pretty much self imposed/ invented by the incel. I don't find them the most worthy cause for my compassion. I'd rather support women in situations like me (& try to in the course of feminist activism.)

Someonetookmyusername · 29/08/2019 13:34

There is no such thing as an incel. There is an entire class of women and girls trapped in sexual slavery in every country in the world, in order that no man with as little as a 5iver in his pocket need ever forego a sexual climax at the expense of a female human. Masturbation facilitation for men is also available free for anyone with an Internet connection (online pornography.) good point Lucky

sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 13:39

There is no such thing as an incel. There is an entire class of women and girls trapped in sexual slavery in every country in the world, in order that no man with as little as a 5iver in his pocket need ever forego a sexual climax at the expense of a female human. Masturbation facilitation for men is also available free for anyone with an Internet connection (online pornography.)

Maybe people are looking for something just a little more than that in life. just maybe...

Lucky222 · 29/08/2019 14:14

No, incels specifically claim to be deprived due to lack of sex with attractive women, not lack of relationships.

sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 14:52

Is there an incel code of practice (as it were) and in any event then, why mention masturbation ?

sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 15:21

Just looked on t'internet for incels and first up was a link to a site called Incel.net. Seems just the place, I thought to myself.

Now, I really know next to nothing about these people or their problems - whether perceived or real. However, the description of the above site is a support website for people who lack romantic relationships and sex, but mostly geared towards those lacking a girlfriend or seeking marriage.

Not just sex with attractive women then.

sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 15:23

slight correction, I searched "incels forum" (on google).

Jesaminecollins · 29/08/2019 15:30

I really don't get these incel men. When I was at school there was a boy who was not that attractive to the girls and would get picked on. I think sometimes teenagers can go through a geeky stage and he was definitely a geek. He was very intelligent and was top of the class in most subjects but not a hit with the girls. Anyway years pass and I bump into him and what surprise he is now a barrister and extremely good looking. When I spoke to him and said how different he looked he became quite aggressive with me and said all the girls were bitches at school and he now dates a model. I said good for you and walked off thinking what an arrogant unpleasant man he had become. Could he be a incel?

MonsteraCheeseplant · 29/08/2019 15:31

That forum is an eye opener. Not in a good way. I couldn't spend long on it because my eyebrows were in danger of lifting off my face.

Endofthedays · 29/08/2019 15:56

It’s inevitable that as more and more women choose to be single there will be many men who can’t find a partner.

Lucky222 · 29/08/2019 17:21

Sawdustformypony You are spending your time on a feminist forum defending men who are part of a movement whose members have literally carried out serial murders because women wouldn't sleep with them (Elliott Rogers.)

Your writing style sounds male. Are a pornsick bloke?

sawdustformypony · 29/08/2019 17:43

You are spending your time on a feminist forum defending men who are part of a movement whose members have literally carried out serial murders because women wouldn't sleep with them (Elliott Rogers.)

Elliott Rodger was an incel.
Elliott Rodger was a murderer
Incels are murderers

Is that your logic ? Bit of a nutter ain't you

Your writing style sounds male Thank you, yes. I mentioned I was a man when I posted to Richard.

Are a pornsick bloke? Not that I recall.

ShortCircuit181 · 29/08/2019 17:53

I genuinely don't understand that. Aren't women merely a collection of 'a woman' on a one-to-one basis. I'm a man btw - just thinking about your above response.

I often feel the same way when men are discussed on here as 'a class'. It often seems to lead to the assumption that we're some kind of homogenous group.

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