Would I be happier if I'd never visited this board?

[partystress]

Not really even a light-heated question. I feel so utterly depressed by the misogyny that I've become aware of through following threads here and broadening who I follow on Twitter. My 'D' H says he can't see the problem with the recent cricket and rugby changes and when I challenged him to consider how he'd feel if our DD missed a place on a team due to a TW, said he would be happy she was living in a more tolerant world than we grew up in.

My DS sees the whole issue through the lens of pleasant, identity exploring uni friends and thinks I'm rabidly obsessed when I talk about regressive stereotypes and risks.

My DD, still at school, thinks sex work and porn are part of a new era of positive empowerment for women. If I question the normalisation of anal sex, and its inclusion in a teen magazine, she says I'm oppressing girls and women.

I feel there is a bubble of people who get it, but the war is lost. The institutions have fallen and the worst possible type of people (those who feel their privilege is under threat, but who actually still exercise massive power) are now in charge of almost everything. For me, it's all entangled with Trump and Johnson and the era of shamelessness being a career and electoral asset.

I am feeling so low about it all, I have got to the point of wishing I'd never heard about any of it. Are there any real lights at the end of this awful tunnel? Boosts needed!

OP the first thing I wonder about your husband

Does he know what transwoman means? Sometimes people don’t understand the word salad.

I've just come back from a get together where the trans topic was raised (not by me). 8 out of 9 people there were horrified by what's happening. The 9th was a woke young lesbian who, I hope, likes and respects us all enough to pause for thought.

The TRAs will not win this, but tragically the causalities with be thousands of gender non confirming children caught up in the temporary madness. We have to keep speaking out.

OP I sympathise, I've been coming over all conspiracy theorist about a range of interconnecting things which include the whole gender ID oppression, women's rights and a few other issues and end up with the demise of western civilisation.

Anyway I think I can give you advice on one thing - your teen's views on anal sex. Maybe because I'm a nurse and have shovelled a lot of poo over the years I can tell her there is nothing sexy about that part of the body! Also, from my midwifery lectures, I remember the paediatric surgeon who gave us a talk on imperforate anus, and related disorders like Hirschsprung's disease. He extolled the wonders of the anus, an organ that can contain gas, liquid and solid at will. Try doing that with your hands.
"The rectum and anus, working in concert, are a force for civilised human behaviour. Respect your equipment people". Or as I have often said to my DDs, there are kids out there who would like nothing more than to have a functioning rectum and anus. I also like to regale them with the bottled anus I once saw in Guys pathology museum. Imagine a large ring of calamari. Probably not much use for the aforementioned purposes. It had been harvested from "a woman of low repute" and showed evidence of much use and abuse.

Tell her that. I reckon inflicting incontinence on a generation is pretty oppressive.

To answer the OP, I think it's definitely the case that enveloping yourself in a community that focuses primarily on the negative aspects of the world we live in will make you less happy. Not just feminism, it could be a very similar situation had you become focused on animal rights or starvation in developing countries etc.

OP no wonder you feel hopeless when your DH is so woefully woke

I work in a middle class environment. The vast majority of my colleagues are utterly appalled by the erosion of women’s rights that is taking place. The only one who supports the TRA agenda does so because she’s a careerist. She’d support anything if it got her a promotion.

I live in a working class area, where every single person thinks this is frightening lunacy, and that men who invade women’s spaces are frightening and dangerous.

I think we’ll win. It’s just that it will take time, because the institutions have been captured. The bottom line is that women don’t want men in their (our) changing rooms, sports, etc; and there are a lot of us. We vote. We have power, it’s just that we haven’t used it yet.

I agree that there will be casualties. Children encouraged down a tragic road of mutilating surgery. Women injured by men playing against them in contact sports. Girls humiliated and attacked in changing rooms. It is terrible, and it shouldn’t happen, but the fact that it will do so is what will lead, inevitably, to the defeat of this dangerous ideology.

On the topic of girls and anal sex, I’m a bit harsh. I think any sexually active girl who is foolish enough to believe this Teen Vogue crap will soon realise the error. Sometimes you've got to try something to realise you’ve made a mistake. There’s enough publicly available information about the dangers of anal sex for me not to be very sympathetic to girls who shut their eyes to it.

I’m brown and my sister and her wife are lesbians. The trans movement is the most racist, homophobic movement we’ve ever seen. Its misogyny and homophobia make the Catholic Church look benign.

Victoria “I live in a working class area, where every single person thinks this is frightening lunacy, and that men who invade women’s spaces are frightening and dangerous”

But part of the problem is that no one listens to regular people. It’s often a load of academic theoretical shite that gets to influence actual policy. People make laws when they have no fucking clue what life is like for the majority.

The strongest voices pushing “no sex-based rights for women” are white, middle aged men [literally].

Their movement is funded by white, middle aged men [literally], to the tune of USD 245 million per annum.

There is no individual on the “GC side” with the wealth or power of Jennifer Pritzker - a TW, ex-military, and buddies with Trump.

Whatever they tell you (you’re all white and middle aged!) remember - accusations are admissions. They are telling you about yourself.

OP, have you asked your DH how he'd feel if (God forbid) your DD's neck was broken by a TW while playing rugby? Will he still just see it as a better world?

Lysistrata he trots out the argument that women vary in height, weight etc so maybe we should just have segregation by size. I think he's not so much woke as one of those men who feels feminism's battles are won. Our DD isn't remotely sporty, so he's only got to think about the sports issue theoretically.

That's your personal experience. Doesn't mean what was wrong for you is wrong for everyone

Which is why I support evidenced based research. To find out what approaches give the best LONG TERM results. And how we can reliably differentiate between different peoples motivativating factors for feelings of disphoria, so clinicians can effectively screen and signpost individuals to the treatment that will work for them.

Not just blindly handing out interventions that need the demands of political pressure groups. Because it looks to me that we are mindlessly medicating and mutilating gay and autistic children to fit with arbitrary outcomes.

If I question the normalisation of anal sex, and its inclusion in a teen magazine, she says I'm oppressing girls and women.

She'll change her tune when she finds out the hard way that it hurts like hell.

Lysistrata he trots out the argument that women vary in height, weight etc so maybe we should just have segregation by size. I think he's not so much woke as one of those men who feels feminism's battles are won. Our DD isn't remotely sporty, so he's only got to think about the sports issue theoretically

He clearly doesn’t know much about sport or human physiology.

If we hadn't been online, the GRA reform would have been pushed through with hardly anyone knowing about it, like the original GRA in 2004. Look how much has gone on under the radar - like the sports policies that are only now coming to light when people are taking advantage of them. People might be generally well meaning and kind, but if they have their hands tied by bad laws, things will only get worse.

I don't see that as contradicting what I said. Yes, the legal stuff, and knowing what is going on with certain other things, can be important.

It's also the case that living in internet land can warp your sense of how people think and feel, and it can make people feel hopeless and depressed. Sometimes it's a good idea to take a break and connect with real people around us, it helps to maintain a sense of proportion and also it's good for people's mental health.

I feel there is a bubble of people who get it, but the war is lost

I don't think that is the case...Truth and facts will out in the end...and the more that people are exposed to the consequences of this ideology, the more it will have the light of reason shone upon it.

Will probably never happen. Give it a few years and most of you will be like the racists and homophobes of old, keeping your heads down in a slightly embarrassed 'were we really that vile?' manner

Actually, the opposite will be true...people will feel foolish for believing in an ideology which will come to be widely seen as, frankly, ridiculous; and not just ridiculous, but damaging....and especially when they encounter the consequences in their own families.

Many women here have been long at 'the coal face' - your nonsense accusations are risible. the joke will be on you.

Let people be who they are.....and not pretend to be what they are not.

I feel this way a lot too - getting involved in GC politics has done nothing for my friendships or my mental health

Our friends and associates change their complexion with time. This is natural and inevitable. We tend to see out those with whom we share values and goals.Some people seem to value company and belonging above all else, however, and are willing to sacrifice their true values and integrity for that comfort.

Stay true to yourself and new friends and associates will appear.

seek out

It's a mixed bag for me, personally.

Whilst the whole self-ID proposal carries obvious risks, I do speculate that too much time on these boards manifests in some believing that there's a sex offender hiding in every toilet waiting to pounce.

I don't, for example, understand the mindset of people who worry excessively about the tiny statistical probability of meeting a transwoman in the toilets but don't worry about smoking cigarettes.

Short apologies if being thick

1. Workplaces having mixed loos already is a problem for many of us

2. public loos are already a problem for many of us

3. I’m not aware of anyone forcing me to smoke, is that next?

I would have been utterly lost on information about workplace rights etc if not for this board.

ShortCircuit181
Does it bother you that men (who identify as women) are being permitted to join women's sports teams?

Does it bother you that parents won't be told if there is a boy (who identifies as a girl) sharing a tent with their daughters at girl guide camps?

Does it bother you that girls are avoiding using the new mixed sex toilets in schools, with all the implications that has for their health?

A year ago when I said to my partner “is it too much to ask not to have to have random penis in my changing rooms?” He stormed off saying “I can’t talk to you about this”

Now he agrees that TW in sports is insanely unfair, that some men are creeps and absolutely will take advantage of self ID, that a ton of people likely think they are trans but are actually just confused and will regret, and that transing kids is basically eugenics.

Just keep on keeping on. If they are sensible people what you said will be percolating.

Yes having to deal with the relentless propaganda from the TRAs is depressing and it is good to come offline sometimes. But as others said, once you realised the damage that is being done to young people and women's rights ,you can't go back. I have to raise the issues wherever I am because I am so angry that it has come to this. Spending time with a group of slightly younger liberal heterosexual women the other day, who have considerable experience, working across the world etc, I was astonished for one to say that she had never heard an opposing posiition to the Trans brave and stunning journey to discover themselves. She is informed by her trans friends and was surprised at the strength of my arguments...went away to investigate further, acknowledging the conflicts I was talking about..two others listening were deeply shocked and said they too would find out more. The same afternoon, another woman a teacher separately expressed her concern about a four year old girl in her class stating she wants to be treated as a boy, change names, clothes etc. With another woman we were able to offer ideas and support in that situation.
These conversations lifted me up hugely as it seems that it is possible for women to reconsider. Interestingly not so easy with some lesbians who appear to identify more with men's needs than with women , to be kind and do not believe feminism should centre women. This makes me depressed again as they appear to be blocking the reality of what is happening , or just won't engage.
I cannot pretend that women are not facing a huge struggle and I will fight for us as hard as I can....while still trying to live my life positively and having fun when I can.

OP, do show your DD FannyCann's post! In fact, we should find a way of showing it to all teenage girls. I'm so angry that this stuff is being pushed on them - remember Teen Vogue's guide to anal sex?

I know what you mean, though. Joining this board has induced in me in a more-or-less permanent state of rage. I remember when I was 16 reading The Female Eunuch, and how affected I was by reading the line: "Women have very little idea of how much men hate them". Over the years I'd mellowed and thought, Well, maybe Greer was wrong. Most men, after all, seemed basically OK. Now I realise she was spot on. And it sometimes seems that most women hate women too.