Genuine question on patriarchy

[Bodd8]

So.... Ive been on MN for a while but named changed because quite frankly Im scared to ask. I feel that the longer I wait to ask the question more ignorant I am going to feel.

The reason Im asking:
I work in a highly professional environment, male and females are in roughly equal numbers, if not grouped in certain areas. There are several women that I work alongside and they are very good at their jobs and well respected. The pay for consultants and perm staff is set. It doesnt change, its the same for everyone. Its been the same wherever I work. There are also women working in quite higher positions than me. Honest to God, I've never heard anyone make sexist comments, it almost feels like a non entity. I've never personally witnessed any inappropriate behaviour [thats not to say it doesnt happen elsewhere]
You get where Im going with this?
Ive met couples on the school run and made friends, the men Ive made seem to make equal efforts with work, children and home keeping. Their wives seem in no way to be victimised and seem to have the majority of control over the daily activities of the family.

So, Im a divorced man, I was subject to all kinds of abuse from ex wife, including violence. When I finally left her she was very angry and tried to use our child against me. I had been providing the majority of care for our child as we both worked full time, however when it came time to file for joint custody I realised how tough it would be. When I attended court it was all female. All three judges, both solicitors and barristers, CAFCASS, even the justice clerk were all female. The pressure for me to give up and "let Mum do the raising and you can babysit to give Mum a break" was immense.
It has cost me £20k to finally secure joint lives with order, as a man I was not entitled to legal aid despite the domestic violence proof I had, and no one ever suggested that the ex should lose contact.
As man it feels I can only be a real parent if a woman or a judge has allowed it.
Anyway I could go on but I hope you'll understand my point.

The question:
I genuinely struggle to see a patriarchy people talk about, admittedly I live in a town of mostly families in the UK. What are the main points women feel are unfair, and in the genuinely nicest possible way how would I notice or do something differently in my daily life?
Im trying not to be bitter about how hard it is to raise my child in a world that sees me as a second class parent due to my gender. Whilst I understand this might not seem as important to some but Id die ten times over for my child. She is the only thing that matters to me. So Im trying to understand "the other side of things" as it were.
Any insight welcome please.

Honest to God, I've never heard anyone make sexist comments, it almost feels like a non entity. I've never personally witnessed any inappropriate behaviour [thats not to say it doesnt happen elsewhere]

It doesn't matter whether or not you've seen or heard it

Their wives .... seem to have the majority of control over the daily activities of the family.

Look up the term “the mental load”.

It is illuminating when a man denies we live in a patriarchy by giving example after example of it.

I had this problem, at my previous place of work I asked for reduced hours to look after my son, I was told by my (female) boss that I didn’t need to cut my hours as “his mum can look after him”, not only does my son not have a mum, but her comment completed ignored my request and assumed a role for another adult. My request was turned down so I had no choice but to quit

My exh had a similar issue but with a different outcome, Simon. In one workplace, he requested reduce his hours one day a week to meet childcare commitments and his boss' first response was to ask why I wasn't doing it!

He explained that, as a teacher, I would cover all childcare and child sickness during school holidays but couldn't do that during term time.

She accepted it but he was told it could be retracted at any time because she'd have to plead his case to her bosses as it was so unusual. It was a role within the local authority who were actually excellent in meeting women's requests for part time/reduced/condensed hours for family reasons actually had no precedent for similar to apply to men.

The cousin/nursery issue is appalling and, yes, an excellent example of how the patriarchy is troublesome for both men and women.

Well this was unsurprising. Man asks women to share their knowledge and experience, completely dismisses it because it derailed his intention to mansplain* to the wimin, and flounces off. Also 'sees me as a second-clad parent due to my gender': it is SEX* not gender.

Sorry, bold fail

chilling19 exactly, it's not the first time this has happened on this board.
Usually starts 'I'm a man, explain to me'...then doesn't like any of the answers so flounces off.
The first page of replies were really nice and helpful as well.

Maybe we should take note of the (few) male posters who've been adversely affected by 'the patriarchy' , or who've shown that they understand the issues, and @ them with a request to explain it to other blokes?

Clearly the OP doesn't value the voices of women who share their lived experiences and also reference data to back it up so I wonder if the voice of a transwoman might carry more weight. The TW in this video gives very relatable examples of mysoginy they have experienced since transition. I found it difficult to watch in places but it's quite revealing about how little men know of women's lives.

Very interesting, Turbo.

I wonder whether the OP would recognise this person as still a man and listen or a woman and just dismiss.

Read this

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/23/truth-world-built-for-men-car-crashes

I am totally shocked that a "genuine question" is actually just a man expressing ridicule and loathing at women. Shocked I tell you

I think what OP is trying to get with this isn’t to question that patriarchy exists... I think he is frustrated because the focus on patriarchy and Male privilege has led to movements which aim to remove such privilege from men... and is quite dismissive of the suffering of many men during this process.

It is clear that OP had his share but of suffering. It is obvious that and a man he has empathy to the feminist movement and to the major sufferings of females.. to domestic issues that affect them which he has been exposed to.

He doesn’t sound like a mysoginist to me. He sounds like a man who has been genuine at challenging his view so he can advocate for equality of the sexes.. and that he was disappointed he wasn’t receiving the same thing back from those who ascribe to feminism.

He just sounds let down... and I’m afraid to say, I don’t think that’s unreasonable..

I think both sides of the argument are feeling dismissed... for pp dismissing the issues of patriarchy is dismissing the pain of many. And for OP asserting that patriarchy is the only issue facing the equality of the sexes is highly dismissive of his suffering.

I think the question has been worded wrong. And OP received a hard time for it.

I don’t think OP is being deliberately obtuse or dismissive of women’s voices. I think this sounds hypersensitive and too defensive and highlights the problem of women constantly feeling inferior and needing constant validation from men and acts of chivalry...

The OP is suffering and has suffered..his gender should be irrelevant. And shouldn’t be a reason for him to be dismissed.

And OP, I think patriarchy is a big issue for females.. but yes, it’s mainly been addresssed from female perspective because not many men have been been interested in a movement to equalise the sexes..it’s a very recent phenomena that women are on an equal playing field and so men can be made vulnerable by other women.. as well as the centuries long effect of patriarchy on upbringing of sons...

Your issue however is a modern one. It’s the side effect of women being on an equal playing field, and hence able to transgress just as much as men.. and engage in the tools that patriarchy has been using for centuries.

I’m womansplaining now :D, so what?!

I’m an only sister to brothers who were massively abused for being boys, by other men. And I saw patriarchy screwing their lives. The problem is, the damage done to them led to emotional damage which is also shameful to address as men, due to patriarchy.. they relied on me for that..

Patriarchy had made it s taboo for men to stand up for equality.. which is why you don’t have much representation in the feminist movement.. which is why a modern issue of yours doesn’t have a voice within the movement..

So yes patriarchy IS to blame. But you are right that it’s not fair to put all men in one basket and assume they’re privileged and are only ever abused by other men .. in the modern world, women can be just as abusive..

And patriarchy is no longer the ONLY problem facing equality of the sexes. But things CAN be traced back to it very easily.

I don’t think OP is being deliberately obtuse or dismissive of women’s voices

I'm going to disagree with you on this because he had a name change fail early on and, I think, that if you advance search under his usual name you will find that he spends a great deal of time being obtuse and dismissive of women's voices on here.

Most of us agree, and have said so on this thread and probably elsewhere, that the patriarchy harms both men and women.

I think your sympathetic reading of the OP might have some legs if he had made any attempt to engage with the examples provided by women instead of ignoring them, reiterating his original position thta it wasn't a problem thereby being, oh, both obtuse and dismissive.

Yes, the tells were there from the off. And women still gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Any man who wanders on here demanding the time and attention of women, and then disagrees with what they say purely on the basis of their personal male anecdotes, is not engaging in good faith.

This isn't a classroom. This is the feminism and women's rights board. We talk about women's rights and support women. He was given numerous examples of the issues he was asking about, as well as reading material, but then decided that we were wrong.

This isn't the place for a man to come and mansplain sexism for heaven's sake.

He was getting it wildly wrong, his responses were about as tone deaf as you can get. Not listening to women talk about their personal experience of sexism, having actually asked for it IS patriarchy.

And, it has to be said, utterly predictable. They're always showing up here asking us to account for ourselves, and then telling us we're wrong 🤣

Would you be happy if your brothers were trolling feminist boards and being pretty consistently goady at women?

All I see here is yet another man blaming all women for his problems.

Datun is spot on- boring and predictable.