Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

[TinselAngel]

Less than two years have passed since the first TWEC thread and now its time for a third.

This is a support area for women who are, or have been, in unhappy relationships with male partners who are transitioning, or exploring their "gender identity"

If you are in that position-

1. You are not alone
2. It is not a situation that you should be expected to tolerate, let alone celebrate.
3. There is always a way out, if you want it. The thread is called Escape Committee for that reason

Remember: women talking to each other is a powerful weapon!

Regulars- do post here to get the thread going.

Lurkers- now would be a great time to de-lurk.

The author refers to 'myths' about trans family life... Herself keeps the myth alive that all families are like this/can do this/just need to love enough/children and young people are at fault or flawed or bigots if they don't accept/embrace/believe/tolerate.... This one can itself be shelved in Mythology (it is after all fiction) I think.

I haven't read this book (nor will I), but I do write (and a manuscript of a memoir of mine was a finalist for a national prize), and I remember thinking, when I was in the midst of all this, that if I capitulated to my then husband's wishes, I could write a book that would certainly be picked up by a publisher and the liberal cheerleading industry would make me a paragon of right thinking virtue.

I don't know this woman, and I don't know what motivates her, but you'll have to forgive me if I'm skeptical of her motives as well as of her "all-in" stance.

The author is a Stonewall campaigner. Not a transwidow, not a child of a transitioner. So fairly obvious what she is trying to achieve. Her research has only involved families who stay together; we are of course rather hard to reach safely even if someone wants to talk to us. Which they don't, because we report lived experience they want to delete and overwrite. So you can see it really as like all the other propaganda; it's particularly ill-informed and insensitive as is likely to be given to young people and children whose parent is doing this, by well-meaning librarians/professionals, and of course I can totally imagine my kids' father enthusastically buying them it to help his cause. We shouldn't be telling kids how to feel, but of course they are surrounded by that. Mine feel guilty enough about their feelings, without this sort of shite.
And you're right Walked, you could have done a Love Lives Here and made lots of money and gained lots of strokes for your tolerance and loving the inner person.
But I'd far rather read something of yours. Well done for getting it onto a prize list. There have been bits and pieces of transwidow stuff published/broadcast thanks to some braver editors, and more would be good.

But I'd far rather read something of yours

I'd always rather read the authentic voice of a strong, honest women, than fashionable lies.

100% there for your ethical decision, Walked

Usbourne publishing calling mums transphobes www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3792431-Usbourne-publishing-calling-mums-transphobes

Here's the thread about the book if anyone hasn't seen it. Things really kicked off on Twitter about it.

About the book that is! Not the mumsnet thread!

I chatted to my therapist about Transgendered pepople and my experience with them. My group of friends is pretty eclectic and one of them is an MTF. Her name is Olivia and I realised that when I knew Oliver, the transition to Olivia was seamless. No difference at all pre and post transition.

I considered my ex, he was like night and day. Shit human, saw the clothes, hair and shoes as part of his fantasy. I told the therapist that there were women out there like me. That had negative experiences and were not allowed to share them because we were seen as TERFs. That there was a narrative of joy for those who transition, but not for those left behind.

Glad you are talking to someone Rett; it's so helpful if you can find the right person.
This thread is often about distress and pain; it is good to remember that we also share if not joy, relief, freedom and fresh starts from women who have managed to leave these situations and establish good new lives for themselves. From several years on, I now experience intermittent joy in areas of my life, and a profound sense of independence, resilience and integrity. I'm optimistic that there is joy to be had for women who decide to leave these relationships, with time, the right help, and of course the essentials (family/friends, financial independence and stability, a roof) in place. I'm aware not everyone has that, and many are unhappily staying, but along with our support for one another, I hope we can celebrate the positives of not staying/moving on/walking away/saying no/holding boundaries/going it alone, as having this kind of life event doesn't have to mean enduring pain, distress, bewilderment and despair. For those of you 'in it', it can be impossible to see a good future; I certainly couldn't for years, but I took great comfort and strength from women reporting from further down the road, where life was much better. Sorry if that sounds trite; I was just struck by the 'narrative of joy' you rightly note Rett, and that things can get a whole lot better.

I've got a project planned for sharing trans widows stories (anonymously!) outside Mumsnet. If any women who have already posted in the thread think they might be interested in being involved, and I haven't already been in touch, then please DM me.

How's everybody doing? I've got a copy of THAT BOOK, but am procrastinating starting reading it as my friend who has read it says I'll find it triggering.

@TinselAngel

I am doing so much better. Meds have really worked and counseling has been great. I had to deal with the deaths of a family friend and 2 good friends of mine over a 3 day period and I could only go to one funeral. I was worried that my emotional reaction was not appropriate. However, it turns out I am having an appropriate reaction and the grieving I'm doing is normal.

I got really irritated by that exchange on twitter last night with a person who did their own 'study' and claimed that AGP trans are not abusive. I wanted to give him/her the benefit of the doubt, but the way she conducted the study was so amateurish. I won't link it here, because ppl can track back referring websites and I don't want him/her finding us here and telling us that we're wrong and our 'anecdotes' are not valid or reliable.

So, today was a mix of crap. I went to a funeral today, I've lost hearing so I have had to get a scan to see if there are issues in my sinuses, I went and fixing up a friend's house that I'm looking after while they have relocated to another town. That friend has hurt me deeply over the last 3 weeks and I'm unsure about continuing our friendship. So, I'm seeing them tomorrow and I'll make my decision then. I've had nearly 2 weeks of no meltdown, but today it became too much and I broke down in the afternoon but pulled myself together and read books to my 2y/o. Even this response is an indicator of my mental disarray. sigh!

That exchange on Twitter was interesting, in that the AGP who was trying to defend AGP's was displaying exactly the sort of behaviour that Blanchard was describing in the article under discussion!

https://quillette.com/2019/11/06/what-is-autogynephilia-an-interview-with-dr-ray-blanchard/

They really are very predictable, it's difficult to know whether they lack self awareness or are self aware but just don't care. Probably the latter.

It sounds like you've got a lot on Rett . What you said about questioning your reactions to things rang a bell. I noticed this in myself when DD was at her Dad's for Christmas and I was devastated. I noticed I seemed to be trying to talk myself into believing I was over reacting.

I think maybe I need to just allow myself to feel how I feel. I also wonder if when you have been through the sort of things we have all been through, minimising your emotions becomes a habit.

Of course we've been trained by the type of person mentioned above who also wanted to dismiss and minimise our emotions.

I feel very busy at the moment too. We must remember to take time out for self care.

@TinselAngel

See, if I finished my Behavioural Science degree, I could go into research and look at transwidows, however, due to my own experiences, I literally could not be unbiased enough in my opinion, to be fair to both sides. However, a basic premise of research is that if you are aware of your own bias' you need to bring in others to help balance the research so that all points of view are covered. I would do that, which I guess means, I'd be more objective than I feel right now.

Both degrees I"m studying emphasise how to conduct research, how to do the readings to challenge your hypothesis as well as support it, and you must always include a counter argument, because if you don't acknowledge the other side, then how can your research stand up to scrutiny. There was a lack of diversity in the sample. There was no checking if the sample of representative (which must be done). I took that person apart because anyone without a basic understanding of research principles, which lets face it, is most people, would think that the research was valid and legit. It wasn't.

Reading that article I think my H is the first type of trans, the non AGP type as thinking back over our years together he never really enjoyed sex and had never slept with any other woman before me. He now claims the hormones have changed his orientation to be attracted to men but I feel he was always this way and was afraid to admit it as his controlling father would never have accepted it.

So he was just using me to create a family and blamed his lack of enthusiasm for sex on my unattractive personality
Luckily I had partners before him so didn't believe this but hanging onto my own sense of self worth over the years has been hard.

@WifeOfTiresias my ex was definitely the second type.

He had stashes of trans porn, wore female clothing, put on make up, did it all when I was at work or out. This is why I was never permitted a front door key, I always had to ring home when I was leaving work and tell him when I would be home.

I was locked out of the bathroom when he was using it which could be up to an hour to two hours at a time. He kicked me out of our shared office and relegated me to a corner in the bedroom with my computer, I wasn't allowed to be in his office, it was always locked.

It's hard to deal with, but I've parked all the issues I have with him at the moment, as I need to grapple with my childhood trauma first before I look at what happened to me as an adult.

@TinselAngel

I'm doing very well. And how odd it feels to be able to write that. At any other time in the past four years, if not five (my ex made his trans declaration in March of 2015; god, coming up on five years!) I would have been able to say, at best, "okay," or "better." But today I can say with certainty: very well.

I just today completed an essay grappling with my ex's declaration he was "a woman in a man's body" and the subsequent effect it had on our marriage (I divorced him) and my psyche. I hadn't been able to write anything for three years (not a good situation for an academic and creative writer), so this represents a huge step forward for me.

Now I'll start looking for someone to publish it. I'd prefer to place it somewhere else other than a gender critical site like "Feminist Current" or "4W," but if I run into a brick wall with more traditional venues, I'll make it available that way.

Huh.. I just read about Caitlyn Jenner finally finding shoes that fit.

"She went on: 'I'd always fantasised about having beautiful clothes that fit, but here's my dilemma in that department. I feel like, on the one hand, I've got to dress age-appropriately because I'm 70 years old, you know? On the other hand, little Caitlyn's only five years old and a girl's gotta have a bit of fun. And so, I go back and forth on that. I want to be a cool chick.'"

I don't recall little me wanting to have fun and wearing high heel shoes or cool clothes at the age of 5. I was too busy playing on swings or throwing my teddybear around.

The clothing obsession is so tedious.
Rett your experience of the secrecy resonates greatly with me. I'll never forget the 'click' every time I went into our spare room where he was on the family desktop computer.
Or the feeling when I tried to sort out the desktop after he left, and found a mysterious data stick, and that he had installed software to allow secret browsing.
He spent many hours not engaging with his children, but on the desktop, in the months running up to his 'announcement'.
He created a fake user on a 'women's website chatting about shoes and make-up.
Living with someone with a secret is quite traumatic afterwards, particularly when it overwhelms them, takes them entirely away from interest in children/partner, and manifests itself as an obsession with appearance, clothing, make-up etc. It throws our sense of reality and trust into question; I don't really know what went on or for how long, and that is very strange looking back, after years of marriage. The trust/reality issues badly affected one of my children who developed derealisation and anxiety to a clinical level afterwards.
She experienced her father as a clown-like stranger, who didn't feel safe any more, because of the make-up, clothes, voice, weird behaviour.
My ex really believed that the clothes make the woman. Hence the spending, debt, and hours spent on 'grooming'. It's really not an okay way for a father to behave, the overwhelming obsession with self.

And Walked, I hope you get published. And great that you're doing well. Your timescales are very similar to mine and I'd say the same. After about 4 years I started to regard what's happened to us as in the past, and him as a bit less relevant/important.. all progress.

After all this time I still get random light bulb moments where I think "Shit. That was another lie."

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1222799260380430336.html

Interesting thread from twitter about the wider issues raised in a podcast with a trans widow who stayed.

Is expecting heterosexual women to start identifying as lesbians to please their trans husbands, conversion therapy?

@TinselAngel

That is horrendous - this is what my ex wanted me to do and tried the grooming thing with me. That poor woman. I hope she's OK.

Yes I've listened to most of it now and feel very sorry for her. At least those of us who leave get to keep our own identities.

Interesting podcast. The woman herself noted that women don't all stay 'and that's okay', and how difficult it has been for her; I also thought it useful that the clinican noted she has had to 'transition' too, and compromise, and experience profound and shocking loss.
However, yes, the question about sex led to an assumption on the part of the clinician that 'internalized homophobia' is the likely barrier to this woman enjoying lesbian sex. A bit like saying that lesbians who don't fancy transwomen are transphobic....
Whatever happened to sexual orientation; yes, some people are fluid but this woman may not be. There were hints of her own failure/religious belief (homophobia)/a generational issue, driving her 'not being gay' (which she very clearly stated she isn't).
The whole drive was towards her not having a sexual orientation at all. Very odd, reminiscent of conversion therapy I agree.
But that was terrible particularly when it happened to me; when it happens to partners/wives, we all need to get on board so they stay.
Interesting that her partner hadn't pressured her to have sex at all.

So she's left with a large part of her life missing and advice to use sensate focus to get back in the saddle despite her core sexual orientation.
It was slightly refreshing compared to the celebratory Love Lives Here/daytime tv brigade telling the world how marvellous it all is and how unchanged their lives are, nay improved.
But very disappointing for a telly psychologist to not at any point acknowledge that she might actually not be gay, or able to 'unstraight' herself...

Didn't Tania Byron used to be on telly as child psychologist?