**Solution** 'CIS' women and transwoman form a class together

[2BthatUnnoticed]

By ‘cis’ I mean only women who ID as ‘cis’ (CW). This is only a small proportion of the world’s 3.8 billion women, but politically very influential.

Most women want some sex-based protections, and access to certain sex-segregated spaces when in need – refuges, shelters, rape crisis centres, prison.

Some women, usually 'CW,' do not – they support removing sex-based protections for gender-based ones. [Many CW believe "TWAW" (regardless of transition) and that any risk of predators assuming a trans ID to access women’s spaces is minimal.]

To solve this fairly for all – why don’t CW form a class with trans women (TW)? Leaving women who want single-sex spaces to do so?

(Eg 1) In Vancouver, 2/3 rape crisis centres admit TW. TRAs are trying to get the one female-only one (VRR) closed (incidentally I've worked in a shelter - there are genuine reasons for single sex). Instead, why not have a 4th centre specifically for CW/TW - and respect the female-only centre as is.

(Eg 2) Youth hostels could have (1) male dorms, (2) female dorms and (3) CW/TW dorms. This would respect everyone and keep everyone happy:

• CW would be with TW as they wish – with gender ID in common.
• TW would be amongst those who believe TWAW - gender affirming.
• Women who want and need a female only space would have it.

I think there would be high profile people happy to champion the TW/CW cause (eg Sally Hines, Mhairi Black, Munroe Bergdof, Danielle Muscato).

What do you think?

Are there CW/TW posters about - would you support this?

Most “women’s” Refuges currently admit TW. They will lose their funding if they don’t. This policy is causing harm. Do you support it being changed as proposed?

Post edited by MNHQ at OP's request

We’ve already got the spaces needed. Female (women), male (men), unisex (the rest).

I wish we did, but there are very few female refuges anymore.

By 'cis' do you mean trans allies? Let the trans allies share with the TW? Leave us female women to our own spaces?

This is the reality

Yes nightsky that is what I mean!

I might have been a bit waffly

No, let the trans allies and mtf people share with the men or fight for unisex spaces ( not ‘prefix whatever word you want in front of women ‘ spaces) .
This is a male acceptance issue being dumped onto women.

Sounds fair to me - keep women's spaces as it is and let there be third spaces for those who identify as cis, non-binary and trans. Third spaces that are specifically for the believers of gender identity ideology seems like the only way forward.

I don’t use a prefix for women. I believe in women as a sex class.

Women who believe we are a gender (not sex) class - should have Refuges with TW.

That way we get our single-sex Refuges back.

It looks like a good idea on paper, but in reality some TW will still insist on accessing XX women's spaces coz TWAW and need that validating.

Oops that last comment was to Wurz

Yes Nonny that’s what I mean - I would support Mhairi or anyone if they wanted a Refuge with transwomen.

I just want those women who want single-sex to have that option. It’s been taken away, unfairly.

I know, but if those women who self-ID as “CIS” are sharing with TW, wouldn’t that validate them?

I know someone tried to start a TW-only refuge but that was rejected. Hence adding self-ID “CW” in.

No.

I see what you're getting at but it won't work. Nothing but total capitulation will satisfy and the women who don't capitulate are the ones they most want validation from. It's some weird 'thrill of the hunt' scenario.

There's no point in trying to appease, a flat no, you are not women, you do not belong in women's spaces is the only way to stop the nonsense.

I know someone tried to start a TW-only refuge but that was rejected. Hence adding self-ID “CW” in.

Oh, why was it rejected?

I see what you're getting at but it won't work.

Most of the general public would see it as a reasonable compromise. If the TRAs keep refusing such suggestions and offers, then that might peak trans more people and get them to realise the ideology is not about finding a workable solution but rather all about validation.

I know, but if those women who self-ID as “CIS” are sharing with TW, wouldn’t that validate them?

No, because there are many male people of all kinds who get off on boundary violation.

Where did that pro men's rights, anti women handwritten notice come from 2BthatUnnoticed? That's appalling.

TRA's can force women to use mixed sex spaces but refuse to use them themselves?

No. Women never get this much consideration. We aren't equal and we need to focus on that, because we are losing essential services. It should be a national scandal.

Jesus Christ 2be is that from a UK refuge?!?

I’m fine with your idea if it truly gives everyone a choice of single sex or single gender spaces. It’s basically the ‘third space’ option.

Nonny influential TW thought it was invalidating, and refused to support it.

But if that same refuge also catered to self-ID “cis” women, it could make all the difference. A CW/TW collaboration. Validation.

If politicians (Mhairi Black et al) supported female Refuges we wouldn’t have to think about it. But they don’t, so we do.

That whiteboard looks like a training session. Dear gods, I feel sick. If I didn't have caring responsibilities (not kids), I'd end it all now. This is what we've come to.

Nonny influential TW thought it was invalidating, and refused to support it.

Hahaha and yet the Scottish Trans Alliance responded to the GRA consultations suggesting that single sex exemptions in the Equality Act should be removed, and replaced with exemptions specifically for Trans so that they can run services exclusively for trans people and only employ trans people in such spaces.

I wish they would all at least agree on what form of validation they want.

They don't want to share with "cis" women. They want to share with women who don't want to share with them.

Sorry OP: massive non-starter.

Another reason this won't happen is that if it did 'cis' women would soon enough discover they were women after all and choose to use women's spaces. There'd be very few validators if there was actual choice.

'Cis' women know it, we know it, trans privilege activists know it.

It would prove the point though.
As long as women get to maintain their single sex spaces, I don't care much for how the third spaces are structured. If the cis and non binary women find the gender identity spaces not as progressive as they insist it is, they know where to find the rest of us.