Peer-to-peer abuse: Victim's parents call for changes to guidelines

[LangCleg]

BBC reporting on the terrifying and increasing levels of sexual assault in our schools. Extract (but do read the whole thing):

The parents of a six-year-old girl who was sexually assaulted by classmates have called for a record to be set up showing all sex abuse between children.

Bella - not her real name - was abused by two boys at her London school almost every playtime for six weeks

The government said schools should be reporting peer-to-peer abuse and Ofsted inspectors should be highlighting if the school did not do so.

But Ofsted said it would be impossible to judge if incidents were being noted.

Statutory guidelines introduced by the Department for Education (DfE) last year and updated for this September said all teachers and staff must read part of the Keeping Children Safe in Education Guidance, which explained what peer-on-peer abuse was and the types of sexual violence of which staff should be aware.

But no reporting mechanism was introduced to make sure each teacher read the guidance and no timescale by which that should have happened.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49084906

Ok thanks for answering Arnold for your daughter . It should absolutely be changed then, I'm gobsmacked that schools don't take the matter further, though in fairness I'm not sure that they would here in OZ either.

Surely it's basic safeguarding procedure?

The term peer on peer is definitely problematic, I was reading some American literature on the subject and in many cases they (education, criminal and psychiatry institutions) were refering to peer groups as being up to 7 years in age, essentially making a 11yo the same peer group as a 4 year old, which is rediculous in practice, but probably makes sense on paper as that age groups conveniently lumps whole primary schools and secondary schools together.

Let's call this what it is, School Based Sexual Abuse.

LangCleg yes, I agree it is mostly boys. I just meant it is not peer to peer.

Thank you DanaPhoenix. It was a long time ago and my daughter is fine. Perhaps more importantly as far as I'm aware the boy in question is fine, there were no further incidents, his behaviour was nipped in the bud. He came from a difficult background and we felt that other parents were reluctant to take the matter further because we were all aware of this having known him since nursery school. We also felt once he moved to secondary school other families who didn't know his circumstances would be less sympathetic. There was a risk that if he targeted a girl from a different primary school at that point an older brother might take matters into his own hands. I am not convinced that cover ups are in the best interests of perpetrators any more than victims.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers

"Schools in my experience are very reluctant to involve outside authorities.

When my own daughter was sexually assaulted by a boy who had already similarly assaulted numerous other girls in their final year at primary school the police were only involved because Mr Whatshisknickers sat in the head teachers office, phone in hand, and flat out asked whether she was calling the police or he should?"

I'm so sorry this happened to you daughter. Glad it was a relatively minor assault. Your husband was totally right to involve the police or rather push the head into doing so.

If other parents had been proactive then this boy could have been stopped sooner.

I don't understand why schools are reluctant to involve the police. If I were assaulted at work and my work place failed to follow the proper procedure or tried to hush it up, I coulf probably sue them. We need to take children's safety as seriously as we take our own safety.

italiangreyhound

They're reluctant for the same reason any institution is reluctant from the BBC through Scouts to the Catholic Church. It makes them look bad so they don't want it to be public knowledge.

I'm glad she's doing well. Yes I so agree that coverups don't help the perpetrators, well adults it does, but that's a different conversation.
A child or young teen exhibiting that kind of behaviour usually has something going on behind the scenes.

I can't really say to much more about the situation in my neighbourhood at risk of outing, but yes, very troubled young girl, unstable family dynamic.

AngelasAshes

We have blinders on when it comes to girls.

But you've come along to show us the error of our ways

"It makes them look bad so they don't want it to be public knowledge."

I know but when it does come out, and it often seems (quite rightly) emerge, the fact there are cover ups make a it so much worse.

Arnolds pay is great.

It's usually the worth who deal with or try top deal with this stuff.

We are socialised to be nice, and give benefit of doubt.

Ok. Fuck that. Kid has been sexually assaulted. What would dad do?

Go through the roof.

And, obviously not advocating violence. Lots of threads on here though, what should i do school are ignoring.

Do what he did. Are you calling the police. I all n going to sit here until you call the police. This is a crime. Etc.

No it shouldn't be up to women to sort out Male sexual offences at any age. But we are where we are.

Arnolds post ffs

Sorry for awful typos

Posting on rarely used tablet thing

So women go in as dad would 'go mental'.

Going mental is correct response to child being sexually assaulted in school.

Send the men in. Maybe then they will fucking well do something.

I'm not joking.

Who are we protecting here and why.

I personally think all forms of aggression and violence are too well tolerated in schools and not enough is done to stop it.

My experience with my kids was quite fortunate, very little bullying etc. However, I know of children who were punched, kicked and, in one case, hospitalised in primary school due to bullying.

The targets are male and female. The perpetrators were male.

If protecting all kids were a proiroty schools would never sweet up the carpet damaging behaviour. It is on no one's interests.

sweet under

What would dad do?

This is an interesting point. Mr Whatshisknickers works nights, I work days, so he always picked the kids up after school and had already involved the police before I knew anything of it. I was at work.

Would I have done the same? I'm honestly not sure.

Sweep!!!!!

I am not convinced that cover ups are in the best interests of perpetrators any more than victims.

Not so sure. I have read two separate, very depressing articles years back (and I can't seem to find either of them any more, which annoys me to no end). One found that kids who were bullies generally became happy teens and adults, while their victims suffered into adulthood. The other found that teenage boys who had sexually assaulted, even raped girls went on to become well adapted adults without further transgressions. (Which is why it is super important to give them the opportunity to move on, obviously....).

I swear I actually read this sh**. And the sad part is, I can well believe it.

deepwatersolo good points.

Yet some may 'get away with it. Others may end up with an angry dad or brother (or mother or sister) beating them up. It may go on to worse offensive and jail.

But any way, always the system must work for the victim.

Yes always system must work for the victim.

Women and girls are dismissed.

Send the dads in. Socialisation means that men are generally more comfy expressing anger, and that they get listened to more.

An angry man going into the school and saying wtf my dd has been sexually assaulted you need to call the police znd what else are you going to do.

Btw my dh wouldn't fit the bill for this. Otoh he's massive and Male. I think they would listen more.

So. Assuming anger and not actually violence. Let the men go ffs. Let them go 'ballistic'. That is the correct response.

Of course not all families have a man.

Lots do.

It would help.

Yes or would be great if people listened to women and girls.

But they don't.

So in the meantime. This is not a 'women's issue'. Send the angry dads into the school when their daughters or sons are sexually assaulted.

Then they'll fucking listen.

The other found that teenage boys who had sexually assaulted, even raped girls went on to become well adapted adults without further transgressions.

Or at least not ones they got caught for.

The cynic inside me notes the work of psychologist David Lisak on "undetected rapists" (he uses a methodology where he asks male university students questions like "have you ever held a woman down to have sex with her after she's said no?" A surprising number, round about 5 to 6%, will admit to behaviours meeting the legal definition of rape, if the questions are couched so as not to use the word rape.) Lisak finds that among these "undetected rapists" the average number of crimes admitted to is 6 per rapist.

I suspect that "restorative justice" may in fact function as a training course in "how to select your victims such that they aren't likely to report, and if they do, they're not likely to be believed..."

My experience with my kids was quite fortunate, very little bullying etc. However, I know of children who were punched, kicked and, in one case, hospitalised in primary school due to bullying.

The targets are male and female. The perpetrators were male

Again, nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Bullying, including violent bullying, is a separate issue involving both boys and girls.

This is about sexual harassment, assault and rape which is mostly by boy pupils on girl pupils. The rates are rising in schools and the language currently used by authorities obscures its reality. Furthermore, despite statutory guidelines, reporting is inadequate.

This is primarily a sex based issue affecting mostly girls.

It's nothing to do with bullying. It's nothing to do with CSE by adult perpetrators. It's an issue affecting primarily girls in our schools.

I question why so many posts here are colluding in this obscuring of a big problem affecting girls. Why is everyone so incapable of focusing on a specific injustice because it's girls?

Or at least not ones they got caught for.

Quite. I also wondered how they were sure the raping boys had become 'well adapted (aka non raping) adults' in that one article I mentioned.

Presumably the whole experience just teaches them how to 'get away with it'