Blaire White vs. Jessica Yaniv Monday August 5th at 9pm

[TerfTalk]

I thought I'd start a new thread as the other one doesn't have a clear title.

I think it is cruel to say that people can use female facilities based on passing. I think the choice is simple if Blair is a woman then so is yaniv. What is the difference.

In spite of myself though I found myself agreeing. If I walked past BW in a toilet or something I wouldn't bat an eye lid but I certainly would if I found myself alone in one with JY.

I'm grappling with my own hypocrisy about this. I wouldn't be alarmed by Blaire White in the ladies but I would by Buck Angel for example. I've never been alarmed by a GNC female and I don't think I've ever mistaken one for a man. Expecting a transwoman to "pass" reinforces the stereotypes I'd like to see disappear and yet I can't overcome the fact that I feel less vulnerable in female spaces with people I know or perceive to be women even though I know transition does not change the likelihood or someone born male offending. It's a contradiction between my beliefs and my reality and I can't seem to reconcile it.

Passing just doesn't work as a criterion really. Too subjective. Who's going to tell some poor trying hard trans young person that they're not passing after all? On the other hand Yaniv thinks Yaniv passes.

If a 25 yr old successfully passed as a 15 yr old they wouldn't alarm schoolchildren but they still don't belong in a school as a pupil.

Reinforces my idea that trans campaigners should be putting some of their campaigning energy into asking for third, unisex, single cubicle spaces.

I think it is cruel to say that people can use female facilities based on passing.

Personally I would at this stage prefer absolutely no males in female spaces.

But those who 'pass'..noone will even know they are male, so theres not really anyway to keep them out! Its sad for those who don't pass and never will, sure..but thats kind of how it is. If someone passes convincingly as female, they will not be noticed using female areas.

Reinforces my idea that trans campaigners should be putting some of their campaigning energy into asking for third, unisex, single cubicle spaces.

This makes so much more sense, and I would be fully behind a campaign like that, would even donate to crowdfunding for it.

What I never understand about the female space argument is, TRAs scream that gender and sex are different things. I totally agree, think its possibly one of the only things TRAs and feminists agree on.

So gender is not sex. Great. But, areas that are segregated are segregated by sex..yet for some reason, apparently gender is more important that sex?! No areas are segregated by 'gender', it would be totally impossible, and utterly pointless, especially given there are like..7b genders.

I’m never sure why TRAs wheel out the “argument” that Transwomen who pass already use women’s toilets etc. Well that’s as maybe. People also get away with shoplifting and driving without insurance and all manner of things. It doesn’t mean we throw our hands up and say oh well there’s no point trying to stop those things.

Transwomen who use female facilities without natal women 'realising' presumably don't behave in ways that make others using the facilities feel unsafe, troubled or threatened.

Generally, they don't go round taking selfies or otherwise trying to draw attention to themselves.

Does anyone know the Canadian laws on rape by females? In the UK women cant actually be convicted of rape.

I would put money on it that JY will rape someone
He is a dangerous predator and should only be held as an example of why self ID is a ridiculous and dangerous concept.

The actual thought that the law supports his behaviour. I just cant find words. I really did not realise the levels of lunacy involved in this when I first started reading more about these issues.

In the UK women cant actually be convicted of rape

That isn't entirely true even for natal women who can be found art and part guilty.

However if your question is predicated that a trans woman can't be guilty of rape because they are a woman, that isn't correct.

There are variations in the wording of the statutes for the individual parts of the UK, but rape is penetration by a penis. It is irrelevant whether the owner of the penis calls themselves a man or a woman or holds a gender recognition certificate.

Penis includes an artificially constructed penis so a trans man can be guilty of rape too.

Ahh thankyou for that. Well that's something then but honestly I still wont be shocked to see the headline and the defence be that rape is a Male crime and JY cant be classed as Male.

Honestly nothing that abhorrent creep gets away with will shock me after some of the things I've read and watched tonight.

Does anyone know the Canadian laws on rape by females? In the UK women cant actually be convicted of rape.

In Canada there isn't an offence called rape, it's all sexual assault, and it can be done by a man or woman.

Well I'm glad I misunderstood that. That's something at least but even just the fact its gotten as far as it has.

I would refuse him services aswell as a nail tech. No fucking way would I be in that house and I do more trans peoples nails than any other mobile tech I know.

Just to resurrect this recent thread. I am in a FB group which is ostensibly set up to highlight the worst excesses of people in the dating world - the real creeps and leches and grim dick-pic-senders etc.

This thread developed recently, where commenters are explicitly saying that self-id can be judged real or fake; and that they don't want to be associated with Yaniv, a "pedo creep".

Background: There are a lot of young and woke and right-on members who cry transphobia at the merest mention of anyone taking umbrage at trans people behaving badly, so I was incredibly surprised to see this. I have taken care to blank out all identifying info and used transman/man/woman labels solely to help aid who is commenting and replying to who.

They’re interesting Buzz but the reason they’ve not cried transphobia at the merest mention of anyone taking umbrage at trans people behaving badly is because their take away message is JY is fake trans (which is an oxymoron) or worse a GC plant to give us “TERFs” amo! and not oh yeah self ID could be a problem or JY as a trans woman is a problem.

How do they differentiate between ‘real’ and ‘fake’ trans? Who decides? Cos obvs stonewall says there’s no such thing as ‘fake’ trans.

I know you can’t answer these questions, it just pisses me off the lack of critical thinking and that it always seems to come back to being our fault or our evil master plan.

They need to step up and take ownership.

Sorry if old news but Blaire has tweeted that Jessica has allegedly admitted on a recorded phone call that she doxxed Blaire following their interview. Blaire says she is going to take action. Given Yaniv has gone silent since that call and specifically after the incident showing the taser, I wonder if their lawyer is telling them to button it. I bet they've got their work cut out as it is... Stable doors and bolting horses and all that.

GirlDownUnder "How do they differentiate between ‘real’ and ‘fake’ trans? Who decides? Cos obvs stonewall says there’s no such thing as ‘fake’ trans."

It's a real head-scratcher isn't it? How can they be so sure Yaniv isn't the authentic woman they claim to be? Nobody has the right to say another person is not the thing they claim to be. It must be literal violence to even think it?

I know you can’t answer these questions, it just pisses me off the lack of critical thinking and that it always seems to come back to being our fault or our evil master plan.

Meanwhile back in the real world, yes it's very tedious, but more and more very time there is a mass organised wailing about some perceived slight or other (and I'll repaste thelink I just shared elsewhere: wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/?) the TRAs merely add fuel to the fire of people thinking they have lost the plot. Not to mention shit all over the trans people who have just been gettin on with the business of living their lives in their community for years and years.

They are hoisting their own petard as we watch.

Yaniv is claiming that a documentary maker is going to do a doc about him 🙄

and I'll repaste the link I just shared elsewhere: wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/?

Wow Buzz I need more wine to go with the whine! That list just shows that some people really have too much time on their hands, and a cushty life if that’s all they have to worry about.

JY is back on twitter, issued an apology to Blaire White for doxing her address

mobile.twitter.com/trustednerd/status/1162133052564238336

IMHO it’s not much of an apology.

It's damage limitation. Too little, too late.

Apology?

It's a teenage "I'm SORR-EEEEE!" before flouncing, then coming back to say "oh yeah,. well I didn't ask to be born, my life is worse than yours and everyone HATES ME!!!!!!"

Maybe I should point out the horrific transphobia shown by the trans people on that FB thread I posted - Yaniv has said again they are trans, and we have acceptance without exception, so Yaniv is as trans as they are, right? RIGHT? Can't go round throwing literal violence at people being their authentic selves.

Although I did snort at this:

MsBlaireWhite
trustednerd You put my life at risk as well as my fiance's.
You are the devil incarnate and I can't wait to see you in handcuffs.

TurboTeddy

I find myself agreeing with your thoughts. Just going off internet photos etc but transmen seem to be better at achieving passing than transwomen. Yes perhaps shorter, smaller hands but these are not the type of thing that you would generally "clock" during a casual encounter in the loo. I know several non gender conforming women, they are still clearly women to me.

This whole debate has become the Pandora's Box.