Challenor showing off their 'new' birth certificate

[MrsSnippyPants]

I will never accept this 'legal fiction, it is a travesty.

And again we have the 'where is the impact assessment for reissuing birth certificates with lies on them'?

'where is the impact assessment for reissuing birth certificates with lies on them'?

I think the answer is "A lobby group told us that everything would be fine so we just blindly believed them".

I'd be happy to be told exactly that there is no such loophole - ffs - we don't want there to be any loopholes.

But I would like to know if a person has committed crimes under a previous identity - and does not disclose the previous identity - what would happen?

"That would be a criminal offence" is not an answer. Does this loophole exist?

I think we can safely assume that the loophole does exist. Another example where normal safeguarding goes out the window, just like GG allowing trans girls to share overnight accommodation with girls. Just like allowing transwomen to be housed in womens prisons. Yet we are called transphobic bigots for being concerned about this.

Bespin is due some credit for coming on here and giving us their point of view.

(Though would suggest they have a short trip to AIBU to see how brutal women can be with each other. Over here we are mere pussycats.)

I am curious though. The report into the Greens suggested AC failed to understand the safeguarding risks of taking her father/election agent to events with young people.

If say, Bespin, were involved in a LGBT youth group, and they have already suggested they do something which involves safeguarding, would they, based on the Greens report and the recent tweets,

1. accept AC as a volunteer? What checks would they make and what training would they insist on.

1. Would they make any conditions about access ACs fiance might have to the group. (Ie supervised only with a names supervisor - not AC)

1. Would parents be informed of both safeguarding policies and the names of actove volunteers.

I am shocked that the youth group AC currently volunteers with neither shows the names of the people running it, nor the names of active volunteers on their websote, and also does not show their safeguarding contact/process.

4thwavenow.com/2019/01/26/my-trans-youth-group-experience-with-morgan-page/

This is the very disturbing experience of a young transman who attended an LGBT youth group in Canada. It demonstrates that in many of these youth groups, safeguarding is near non-existent.

It would be helpful to know if the PNC is updated when a new BC is issued. Does anyone know if the issuing of a new BC involves any statutory requirements to inform any authorities?

This is the crux of it and if it is not so, then the loophole created is unconscionable.

I think the GRC issuing authority should inform for PNC purposes.

I think the answer is "A lobby group told us that everything would be fine so we just blindly believed them".

In all this debate, I have never once seen a risk assessment, method statement, impact assessment that has assessed the risk and impact and made moves to manage the risk. Not one.

If there was one, I am more than confident that at least one agency would have published it to show how they are dealing with it.

It's like some men said 'let do this' and everyone went 'oh aye, lets just shred all our previous risk assessments and safeguarding procedures as these men said we don't need them'.

And the ones that spoke up, were probably sacked for bigotry.

A particular concern would be that the minors attending the group were often there without their parent's knowledge.

This is a theme that runs right through TRA ideology - from schools being told by trans groups not to tell parents if a child is transitioning, right over to (McKinnon, I think?) tweeting "transkids, come and find your rainbow family online" on mother's day, to GG policy of not telling parents that their daughters may be sharing a tent with male-bodied transgirl..

These are huge safeguarding red-flags - separating a child from their parents, telling a child to be secretive, come and find the people that really understand them etc. It's so blindingly obvious that this is open to abuse.

These are huge safeguarding red-flags - separating a child from their parents, telling a child to be secretive, come and find the people that really understand them etc

Im sure there is a word for that - GROOMING!

And the ones that spoke up, were probably sacked for bigotry
This 100 times over. I know of a workplace where the (I am told) gay man decided that for the duration of pride all the toilets would be gender neutral. It was quashed by a higher staff member but not without a ruckus and some bad language. We all know if it had gone ahead "just for pride" it would have been made a permanent change as not one of the few women would have dared openly say anything.

What is the issue with people with hearing disabilities?

It’s still law that you disclose your previous names for DBS but that info doesn’t have to go to that employer it can be kept private if sensitive. Employer would get told of previous offence.

Anyone could change their name and illegally not disclose it if they were really trying to get round a DBS, it doesn’t relate specifically to trans people.

No it doesnt relate just to trans people but as the onus is on the applicant being honest there appears to be a huge great big loophole open to abuse that needs sorting out!

Anyone could change their name and illegally not disclose it if they were really trying to get round a DBS, it doesn’t relate specifically to trans people.

Indeed. But when you change your name by deed poll or statutory declaration you cannot also change your birth certificate - we are flagging up here the fact that trans people can and that we have concerns for the implications of this for safeguarding.

Changing your name, birth certificate and sex.

You are inserting yourself into a low risk category, when you do not have the risk criteria for that category.

Yes exactly - I have changed my name 3 times from my birth name and I have never been able to apply for a new birth certificate.

How does this work with passports? If you get a new passport backed up by your birth certificate.

I know you can change the sex on your passport, anyway.

I don't know how this works, but at airports, aren't certain passports flagged as belonging to undesirables. And when you get your passport checked, it will flag up if it's yours.

If you've changed your name, sex, birth certificate and passport, how does that work?

Are all these different databases speaking to each other?

*Changing your name, birth certificate and sex.

You are inserting yourself into a low risk category, when you do not have the risk criteria for that category.*

On top of that what if you are dual nationality? Things could get very difficult to trace;

Joe Bloggs
Male
British

Becomes for example

Julie Smith
Female
French

Are all these different databases speaking to each other?

My knowledge base is finance, given what I’ve seen behind the scenes at our biggest financial institutions I’d say the chances of this are slim to none.

DBS/PVG dont even have full acces to PNC, no access to PND as far as I can see. As for someone obtaining a passport in new name and sex from another country and claiming they are new to the UK...

The more i think about it the more horrifying it becomes.

DBS online form also only asks you for the addresses you've lived at for the past three years...so, if you've lived abroad and committed an offence there more than 3 years before, they won't pick it up.

I can't find an reference immediately via Google, but I thought there were EU concerns a few years back when Malta adopted self-ID that it might be used by people who wanted to have their financial past hidden. (Malta has a certain reputation as one of the easier places for financiers to gain EU passports.) And that there was a push here for people with GRC's to be able to lose bankruptcies and other problems that might have occurred in their dead names.