Challenor showing off their 'new' birth certificate

[MrsSnippyPants]

I will never accept this 'legal fiction, it is a travesty.

Tinsel

paedophile
[ˈpiːdə(ʊ)fʌɪl]
NOUN
a person who is sexually attracted to children.

Nothing to do with offending or getting caught, its about attraction. NK openly admits to being attracted to minors so is therefore a self declared paedophile.

jolly good so can you explain to people that changing your birth certificate does not erase your original one and that the dbs process does have access to your previous records. becuse that I beleive is the reality of this.

I can't do that, actually, because - here's the thing - I don't know that it does. I've only recently had my DBS renewed and if I recall the current procedure correctly, the onus is very much on the applicant to be honest. Which - as we all know - your average nonce wanting access to children is unlikely to be.

I have no idea at all that applying under your brand new, 'on your birth certificate as if it's always been your name since you parents named you as a baby' name still flags up to the DBS service your old, 'sex you were born and name you were registered under' certificate.

How should I know? I'm very, very worried about the possibility that this offers to offenders, however.

PS On reflection, I can imagine a fair few employers of people where safeguarding is an issue being a tad more wary of trans applicants because of this. Unfairly in most cases, of course. But human nature and the requirement for managers to be tough on safeguarding will make some - especially if it does emerge that the DBS process cannot properly identify someone who has 'erased' previous names - very wary indeed.

Argh! It's grotesque really. I can't believe any sane government would enable this. Call yourself whatever you like, but putting a lie onto an official document is just a travesty. We won't be able to trust any official documents anymore after this.

unfortunately in a society where we don't know someone is going to commit an offence before they do, unless we are already aware of them and can actually undertake the levels of assessment previously discussed then no we Dont know. I know you don't like that answer
but it's the reality. all we can do is make educated evidence based assessments of risk
Spelling and grammar is not always atrocious, only most of the time. Or did someone else write this?

Yes I realise that is the definition of Pedophile, FormerMediocreMale, sometimes sarcasm can be missed in text.

It does seem that bespin is steadfast in the view that a person has to actually offend, be charged and convicted, before they should be considered a risk.

Which is foolish and dangerous thinking.

Absolutely. The Soham murders showed that this was not enough.

It's going to take another Ian Huntley for this loophole to be closed isn't it.
Fucking insane that we can all see it but the power that be are blind to this obvious open door for perverts.

Xposted Melrose.
PS There is no way Bespin is a doctor. They may be working in a clinic or hospital in an admin or HCA role and have picked up enough jargon to think they can "pass" as a "clinician". Trans-medical professional perhaps?

Which - as we all know - your average nonce wanting access to children is unlikely to be

I have no idea at all that applying under your brand new, 'on your birth certificate as if it's always been your name since you parents named you as a baby' name still flags up to the DBS service your old, 'sex you were born and name you were registered under' certificate

How shouldIknow? I'm very, very worried about the possibility that this offers to offenders, however
And it wouldn't take a genius to think a bit and come up with a new name that was similar to, or the same as some woman with the same date of birth.would muddy the waters that much more. What if the new name was changed again by deed poll? And again? The more layers the more muddy the waters. Paradise for maps

Fucking insane that we can all see it but the power that be are blind to this obvious open door for perverts

the MPs that debated this before it went through Parliament, all knew about this and yet it still went through.

TinselAngel, apologies, you are of course correct!

Okay, bear with me.... this will take a few posts. Firstly, my email to the DBS:

"I am writing to find out how DBS checks are handled in the following situation:

A person who has a criminal conviction (or other history that would show up on a DBS check) applies for and is awarded a Gender Recognition Certificate, then applies for a birth certificate in their "new" gender.

Then that person uses the new birth certificate to apply for a passport and a driving licence in their "new" gender. They then provide these new documents as evidence of identity when applying for an employment role for which a DBS check is needed.

Can you tell me if the conviction in their "old" gender will show up as part of the DBS check involving their "new" gender please?

Secondly, their reply:

"I have provided some information below regarding the sensitive route which you may find helpful.

Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) offers a confidential checking process in accordance with the Gender Recognition Act 2004. This gives Transgender applicants the choice as to whether or not they are content for their previous gender to be disclosed on their DBS Certificate. Please note an applicant using the confidential checking service will complete the same application form as any other applicant.

If a Transgender applicant is to complete a(DBS) check, and they do not wish to have their previous identity disclosed to their employer and/or on their DBS Certificate, they should call the dedicated Sensitive Applications Team who are experienced in dealing with this type of sensitive case. A member of this team will advise the applicant about the process and what they will need to do.

The Sensitive Applications process is essentially a service provided for Transgender applicant’s who are covered under the equality legislation, and do not wish, nor have to provide details of their previous gender to an employer. They are however required to disclose this information to the DBS in order for all necessary checks to be completed and to receive a valid certificate. To do this they must contact our Sensitive Applications team who will then obtain this information and initiate checking of all previous genders and identities as well as names/gender declared on the application form.

If you do not wish to have your previous identity disclosed to your employer and/or on the DBS Certificate, and providing you have sufficient ID evidence required by the Employer to support this. Then the DBS Sensitive Applications team can set up a case file for you, the team will require some information to set up the case file prior to you submitting your application. Once this case file is set up, this then allows us to search for your application and make the necessary amendments. Please let us know if you would like to use our service.

With regards to convictions. Police will put any convictions relating to an individual on their certificate. Therefore convictions in a previous names still show on certificates, however if the applicant is using the sensitive route we give applicants the option as to whether they are happy to have the convictions on the certificate in their previous name or if they would like them changed on their certificate to their now name.

I hope you find this information helpful."

Thirdly, my reply. I will repost when I hear back again:

"Thank you for your reply. After reading it several times, I understand that the onus is upon the transgender applicant either to inform their prospective employer about their "previous" gender, or to contact the Sensitive Applications Team to inform them to ensure that all previous birth certificates are checked for convictions (or other issues relevant to safeguarding) also, as part of the DBS check.

Please will you clarify: If a transgender person with a relevant conviction (or other safeguarding issue) on their "previous gender" birth certificate, applies for a DBS check with the birth certificate and other documents of their "new" gender, AND they neither inform their prospective employer about their previous gender, nor contact the Sensitive Applications Team....

will the prospective employer be informed about the conviction (or other issue) relating to the "previous" gender? If so, by what process will that occur?

Thank you."

Thanks for clarifying this cabbage.

(sobs into wine glass)

Well done, littlecabbage. I look forward to hearing their response.

Well done littlecabbage please keep us posted when you get a response.

Great reply.

All we want to know if (using AC as an example) if she applied for DBS check in her new name, given her birth certificate says she has always been that name and never has been the previous male identity, will it flag up anywhere if she doesnt disclose that legally she was a different person. Or do they have to volunteer that information for it to be picked up.

It seems to be as I suggested, then - the onus is on the applicant to be honest within a process where the sole aim is to identify those people who pose a safeguarding risk.

The ability to change your entire identity offers to those who do pose a risk a route via which they might evade detection - doesn't it?

So if Joanne Bloggs, who has a GRC & new birth certificate, applies via the 'sensitive' DBS procedure, Joanne gets to decide if a previous conviction as Joseph Bloggs is recorded as Joanne or Joseph, but one way or another, it goes on the DBS?

Well, that's superficially reassuring, I suppose.

But it's never been me that applied for a DBS - I've been offered jobs subject to a satisfactory check which my potential employer has then carried out.

So if I'd started saying 'ah I need to do that via, um, the sensitive channel' - then I suspect any employer would be ?

Which is one argument I can see being advanced for this being all terribly unfair & outing to brave & stunning job candidates.

Am I missing something?

Or if say Karen White got released and name changed to Daphne would a nursery placement or maternity ward domestic be likely?

Since of course this never happens.

I actually think a dedicated thread "DBS checks with regard to the GRA" or summat is required here.

Oh dear. I don’t like the sound of this at all.