Booking an abortion and asked if I identified as male or female

[Fuckfuckfuckshit]

I actually laughed down the phone. The woman at Marie stopes agreed she felt embarrassed even asking that question given the topic - world is going crazy. Least it gave me a laugh in an otherwise not very funny topic

There's no need at all to ask. 100% of service users will be female - so no need to capture a title, first name and surname would be sufficient. No offence caused by that, unless lack of active validation counts as causing offence these days.

But does it make any difference at the point of booking the appointment how I identify?

It clearly doesn't to you. It might do to a trans man and it makes no difference to how you will be treated or your access to abortion.

If a trans man is raped and impregnated it shows just how meaningless trying to identify as the opposite sex is. They are still treated with the contempt by males as the rest of us.

Exactly, especially the last line.

I care deeply about female oppression, and reproduction is a major part of that. I want trans men to be able to access female services such as Marie Stopes and am pleased they’re trying to be inclusive.

I think the question is problematic though because it suggests males might need an abortion erodes the right of females to identify family planning issues such as this as being female issues and based on sex, not identity. “Do you identify as a man” would be better as it includes trans men but doesn’t bring the sex of male or female into it, and doesn’t imply that anyone has a gender identity other than the person who might answer yes.

Trans men do need this service - occasionally, but the need is there. It’s almost as if those with female bodies have shared interests and would benefit from an organised movement to fight against sex-based oppression.

Trans men 'out' themselves as soon as they go into the clinic.

So yes, there is a problem.
I imagine that is deeply upsetting.

Attending an abortion clinic is deeply upsetting for all females.

Only females need abortions. Only females are still denied the legal right to abortion in some parts of the UK. Anything that turns a fundamental women's rights issue into a 'gender neutral' one is offensive.

^ this absolutely

for OP

If you are pregnant you are female. If you believe in gender ideology and id as a man and wish to make the clinic aware of that fact thats up to you. Asking every caller if they identify as male or female is ridiculous and offensive considering the circumstances.

By asking full name, title and what medication they are on it should become clear if someone is trans. Then if it seems like a possibility ask if they identify as male or female.

Well I think it’s probably helpful for Marie Stopes to know if they will have a trans man coming in

It would also be useful for MS to know if the patient is disabled, e.g. to make access arrangements or accommodate an assistance dog, but they don't ask. The disabled person has to volunteer that information. Are MS supposed to ask questions about all nine protected characteristics of the Equality Act 2010? That's a LOT of questions.

Yet another instance of the Most Oppressed Minority(tm) being pandered to in a way that the other eight protected groups of the Equality Act aren't.

It would also be useful for MS to know if the patient is disabled

And in fact there's a stronger argument to ask about disability than gender identity, because there are a lot more disabled people than trans people.

That's a good point wacademia.

Another more relevant question is 'are you breastfeeding' - it's not uncommon for a woman to present for an abortion still breastfeeding a child - and that impacts on sedation/anaesthesia options.

But they don't ask that, because they cover that in the forms you fill out when you get there.

Every single person presenting for an abortion is female. IMO if the female making the appointment anticipates issues due to their gender presentation, they can raise that with the intake person initially.

It's the trans persons responsibility to be honest about any cross sex hormones they are taking, or any other 'gender' related issues that may affect their medical care.

They are not 'special' females; they are just females like the rest of us, with the same rights (to obtain medical care, safety and to be treated with respect during the process) and responsibilities (be sure this is what you need, co-operate with medical staff, respect staff and other patients, be clear and honest in your communication with medical staff) as the rest of us.

It's fucking hard to rock up and have a termination for many females, regardless of gender identity. What about women with kids and no or limited childcare ? Anyone fussing about them and their access ? No, thought not.

DH is booked in for a vasectomy at Marie Stopes and was asked the same question when he made the appointment. He was just bemused but I would have been so pissed off to be asked in a similar situation to OP

They neglect the possibility as they live a male life where cervical screening isn't necessary.

You know how we keep arguing that one cannot change sex and that thinking otherwise is harmful self-delusion? This is a prime example of what we.mean by harmful self-delusion. Telling oneself that, as a transman, one doesn't need a cervical screen is HARMFUL and ignores reality.

• If someone thinks they are fat when in fact they are underweight, you.don't affirm, you contradict and suggest that they attend an anorexia clinic. Affirming the delusion would be irresponsible.
• If someone thinks they can fly and wants to jump off the roof to demonstrate, you discourage and call the ambulance. Affirming the delusion would be irresponsible.
• If someone thinks they can change sex from female to male and didn't need cervical screening after the "change", you SHOULD contradict them and encourage them to seek help with their self-perception and encourage them to attend smear tests. Affirming the delusion of sex chsnge would be irresponsible. What we actually do is affirm and then wonder why transmen get cervical cancer.

History will judge us badly for harming transmen in this way.

What is your weight?
Thank you. And now, what weight do you identify as?
What medications are you currently taking?
Good. But which do you identify as being on?
What sex are you?
Lovely. And which sex do you identify as?

We need to stop accommodating the 'identification as' movement as if it is anything other than delusion.

It helps no-one to play along and humour people as if it's not completely delusional to 'identify as' something other than material reality. It doesn't help the individual trying to be something they're not, and it doesn't help the rest of us hanging on to reality and trying to resist the insidious creep of 'its' kind for us all to pretend'.

That firm and honest pushback should start in female only services like Marie Stopes.

Because you don’t agree with it, everybody has to live your way?

Yabbers: everybody except for a .01% does live this way. Male/female, man/woman is the default. We shouldn't even be discussing this. Only females need abortions. Someone who is trans and is offended by that reality needs to adapt, not the 99% adapt to them and their offended feelings. As said above, people can be asked how they'd liked to be addressed. Done.

Being unable to accept empirical reality is a mental health issue and such people should deal with that, and not expect patronising so as to protect their feelings.

I don't care one bit how a person identifies, and it is irrelevant to the person undertaking the abortion. Get real. It DOESN'T MATTER.

Because you don’t agree with it, everybody has to live your way?

Because @ 0.1% of the population has become caught up in this ever expanding delusion, the other 99% has to live their way? It’s starting to sound like the second reformation.

I have to laugh at how objecting to the question is making a fuss and even frothy but objecting to incorrect pronouns is righteous. The ideology in a nutshell.

What really annoys me is that, on a regular basis, people make incorrect assumptions about me and address me accordingly. The single mums I know are often called “Mrs (child’s surname)”, and since I was a child I’ve seen documents where everything refers to Mr. or he / him. My name is unisex and people often assume I’m Male when writing / emailing.

I’ve never once gotten offended, I just correct them. I don’t expect everything in the world to be perfectly tailored to my individual circumstances automatically.

If I started to identify as Male, I’d be prepared for the fact that gynae clinics would assume I was female and I would raise it, if I cared.

Entirely agree, Fallingirl.

OTOH "How would you like to be addressed?" is courteous and kind, and covers every possibility, from Elizabeth to Lizzy to Mrs Jones to Bob to he/him.

Being upset at being asked this kind of question is trivial. Nobody minds being asked their ethnicity, or their marital status, or whether they are homosexual, but how very dare they suggest you might be trans?

I would be very offended to be asked any of these things if it wasn't relevant, and it very rarely is.

If you are going to use words like 'fucking', I think you need to accept that some people find the concept of identifying as a particular gender fucking offensive.

I would also be fucking offended to be referred to in the third person at a medical appointment.

OTOH "How would you like to be addressed?" is courteous and kind, and covers every possibility, from Elizabeth to Lizzy to Mrs Jones to Bob to he/him

Agree, although I don't want to be addressed as either he or him. You will suffice.

FFS. If it's relevant or important, I'm sure the patient will bring it up if it isn't fucking obvious.

I don't see why a probably stressful phone call should be made any more awkward for the HUGE majority of women who have called to seek help.

Being upset at being asked this kind of question is trivial. Nobody minds being asked their ethnicity, or their marital status, or whether they are homosexual

I agree that it's daft to be 'offended' by this question per se but I don't think that's what posters mean. I think they are irritated by the general move to change language, policy and practice to claim that sex can change just by saying it can- this is just one example. This is not a neutral change, it has huge implications.

I think it's OK for women to be angered by a movement which is eroding their rights.

It’s one fucking question. Hardly a major imposition, is it.

Actually I think it is an imposition on a woman needing an abortion. The narcissism of this cult is unbearable

I blame the Elsa dress phase.
I fear in the future everyone will have to self identify, DD spouts nonsense about sex or gender no longer being important, acceptance is important she's 11 it is crazy.