Are feminists getting played?

[Maniak]

It makes me sad that feminists are spending so much time banging on about bathrooms in a world that has women still working for no pay, old women still more likely to be poor, surrogacy, underfunded maternity care, and poor support for carers. And other stuff.

Yes, the trans thing is annoying, but have you noticed how it always fires up before major elections? It's like Afghanistan in the 80s when the US provided just enough weapons to keep the war going so Russia would use all it's energy and get weak.

I feel like feminism is getting distracted with the trans stuff. At most, it should take up 10 percent of our feminist attention. But I rarely see feminism these days that isn't all about trans. Seriously. Do you think we're getting played here? Is trans really such a big deal?

LordRudolphVII doesn't think 2 women a week getting murdered is "that many". Why don't you go and tell him he's hateful, he's just started a thread about women who make false rape accusations.

Of course he has. He's as transparent as a pain of glass.

Obviously if this place was simply full of right wing conservative's who were only here for the transphobia then that wouldn't give me much leeway to have any feminist discussions. I get that

As is that.

pane

Yes Floisme, it had the potential to be a great thread but got thoroughly derailed by people who are not productive members of this community and who receive a puzzling amount of leeway from MNHQ

Datun

Yes, extremely transparent that last comment was huh... and my suspicions were right.

Yes, extremely transparent that last comment was huh... and my suspicions were right.

I don't think sakura is a TRA. But those sort of comments, heavy with implication, just puts people's backs up.

That's great. I just think the "not my Nigels " have a huge voice on here. "Not my Nigel" is profoundly antifeminist, as an argument. Even if it might be true about your particular Nigel

What the fuck are you even on about?

Most women have men in their lives that they know and trust, it doesn't mean we can't see that men as a class are a danger to women as a class.

And if you are going to steal other people's ideas, at least have the good grace to reference them.

Most women have men in their lives that they know and trust, it doesn't mean we can't see that men as a class are a danger to women as a class.

But Sakura literally thinks all men and that anyone who does trust a man and doesn’t think literally all is doing a ‘NAMALT’.

Dearie me! Are a few people here still forgetting that this section of Mumsnet is a space for women to talk about women's rights and feminism. It is not a space exclusively for those who declare themselves as feminist. It is for all women .. regardless of their politics, beliefs etc.

Agree - whether right or left wing. My own views aside, I am at the suggestion that conservative women don’t have anything to contribute to feminism.

I'm a little non plussed at sakura thinking she is being singled out for trying to be entirely woman centred. There's quite a few of us with that emphasis, and sakura, you are not the only woman here to have ever been attacked by opposing voices. It really is quite common.

Grandiosity. Helps no one.

Many of the academic and well read feminists have left here, not prepared to be censored.

And I mourn the loss every day.

Ive been reading FWR for about 4 years now and I miss the academic well read feminist posters very much.

They are needed more than ever now that we are reaching a critical mass tipping point over GRA Self ID and the teflon is beginning to get unstuck.

I wish they would return. Mumsnet is one of the few places on the internet to get a GC point across and it seems to me to defeat your own purpose to not use the platform here.

The Mumsnet reach is huge and its crazy to remove yourself from its impact.

I dont often say much on the boards but this point really upsets me. Im not articulate, or well read, and these women were important to my understanding and they have removed themselves. This doesnt help those of us who are left!

there were two posters on there absolutely renowned for derailment and effortlessly turning sensible discussions into shit shows

Yep. That was why I avoided the thread despite being interested in the topic

Same here

they have removed themselves. This doesnt help those of us who are left!

They didn’t remove themselves

You spent last night playing Rock Paper Scissors on this thread Rufus. If you dislike sensible discussions of feminist issues being derailed then perhaps you could consider your own behaviour?

I think Go Fish was a much more feminist option. Silly Rufus.

Cor, levity of any form does upset Cohle doesn’t it?

This isn’t a sensible discussion. It’s a derailment from the start.

I wish they would return. Mumsnet is one of the few places on the internet to get a GC point across and it seems to me to defeat your own purpose to not use the platform here...The Mumsnet reach is huge and its crazy to remove yourself from its impact...I dont often say much on the boards but this point really upsets me. Im not articulate, or well read, and these women were important to my understanding and they have removed themselves. This doesnt help those of us who are left!

You what? You think they removed themselves? 1 did because she was being forced to say words that were not true. The others were dumped on from a great height and I can see why they didn't come back. Which they can't do unless they circumvented the banning of IP addresses. And what for? To be dumped on again and again and again?

Can you play Paper Scissors Rock with hoofs?

You know what, I try to give anyone fair chance on what they say on any given day, but I do object to stuff in the past being brought up repeatedly with a 'i'm so hard done by, by other posters' attitude.

I do not hate anyone on MN. I like some posters more than others but I rarely dismiss anyone outright, as pretty everyone has something of value to add at some point. Even if I generally disagree with them. Sometimes they will say something that strikes a cord and I think 'ooh thats interesting and I hadn't considered that'.

The point of debate is to slowly change minds over time, by getting people to think. You have to have a certain amount of conflict to enable that. Thats not personal. Thats just having different views. We don't have to have the same views and having different experiences which are shared are good to get different perseptives and things you haven't thought of before. Being stuck in a singular echo chamber is really unhealthy.

I really couldn't care less what others have said before, as its done and dusted.

I do care about the current conversations and them being dragged down by previous points of conflict as its not fair to others, who aren't personally invested, don't know the past history and actually want to discuss whatever current topic it happens to be.

Its not helpful.

Move on.

Debate issues on a thread by thread basis rather than indulge in personality clashes and stuff on here that is now in the past.

Take a 'if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it' attitude or just ignore posters who annoy you as best you can.

Remember you will never get anyone to change their mind over night. Its a process over a period of time, and you have to make a case based on something that others can buy into on their own terms, not because its 'the right way' or because they are told they should think a certain way.

If you want to change things, its a long term project and getting personal or taking swipes at others is deeply unhelpful and counterproductive.

Its a new week. Start over.

/rant

Im not articulate, or well read, and these women were important to my understanding and they have removed themselves. This doesnt help those of us who are left!

Incidentally, most were banned before the actual rules that banned them were formulated. So the rules were applied retrospectively.

MNHQ used to have meetings about whether things typed were bad or not, so if they don't know their how own rules apply, how are users expected to understand them?

If you want to change things, its a long term project and getting personal or taking swipes at others is deeply unhelpful and counterproductive.

It depends on what your actual game is. If the game is to cause dissent and cry bullying in order to gain sympathy, and then take those that are sympathetic with you to another social media outlet, and then [for example what happened last year] doxx them...then it certainly IS helpful and productive to your personal cause.

If one smells a rat, then one surely must look closely at what is under the counter rather than assume that the smell is wafting in from someone else's house.

LordRudolphVII doesn't think 2 women a week getting murdered is "that many". Why don't you go and tell him he's hateful, he's just started a thread about women who make false rape accusations.

Just going back to this since Sakura cared so much about it she didn’t comment on that thread or do anything at all... the reasons we didn’t engage him previously should of been obvious, but instead we just reported him and MNHQ pulled the thread and informed us he’s a previously banned poster with form for starting inflammatory threads. So in fact what you witnessed Sakura was the intelligent women of MN who have been here awhile, correctly identifying that poster as a troll and waiting for it to get sorted by MNHQ. Perhaps instead of lecturing those who have been on these boards some time, you could just do some listening and observing and realise we might know a thing or two ourselves...

Can you play Paper Scissors Rock with hoofs?

I've given this some thought. Instead of Paper Scissors Rock, it'd have to be Stamp, Kick, Sideswipe:
Stamp stomps on Kick
Kick is quicker than Sideswipe
Sideswipe knocks Stamp sideways

You want play Lang?