Go on then - PMDD

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

What do you think it is?

Yet again on this forum I am finding myself defending myself and my past actions from self righteous posters who won't even begin to listen, to try to understand.

Apparently the fact that overnight, back when I was in my mid 20s, my whole character changed and I went from being an outgoing, sociable woman to an angry, wailing banshee that had a very hard time not hitting out, and occasionally failed miserably, means I am an abuser and it was a choice I made!

That my DH (bf as he was then) was so worried at the sudden change in me that he spent 2 years trying to talk me into seeing my GP.. and then another.. and then another... to see what the hell was wrong with me (he feared a brain tumour). He, and I, were told by everyone that I was 'just hormonal' or ot was 'that time of the month'. I was not. I was in the grip of a fucking awful dysphoria that I could not control, could not see out of, could not undertsand.

So... I tell you honestly... during the day at work and in the few social situations I coud be persuaded to go to I could just about hold it together. Being in public meant I acted according to social rules and mores. But at home, when I relaxed and shed that public face I could easily get lost in a haze of fury with very little notice and no control. Anything could trigger it, anything!

Then there would be a period of utter calm, I would be my usual slf, my period would start and then, for a week or so, all would be well.

The thord GP we saw spent a lot of time explaining what my endocrine system seemed to be doing to me... we discussed a range of interventions and started with changing my contraception. 48 hours later I felt the difference, physically and mentally. A week later and it was ALL GONE and has never returned.

So... did I make a choice to abuse my partner or did I have a physical disorder that changed me, ;leaving me with very little control, i f any at times?

I want to point out that this was just MY CASE as many women have very different symptoms including suicide ideation.

Please do share if this rings a bell with you... it is a shit condition to expreince and only made worse by posters telling me that I "got away with it" and am an abuser and should own it!

Oh! I see Hiding ! That makes sense. At the time, in the middle of it... yes I would have een extremely angry to have been challenged (as I would have seen it then) But not afterwards, once the Depo had kicked in. Gods, it took months for me to start trust myself. Any feelings of annoyance sacred the shit out of me!

So only PMDD is an excuse for abuse? No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I AM saying that some medical conditions can be the root cause of abuse, not an excuse for it. THAT is the conversation I suppose I wanted to have. I KNOW what I did was abuse... I also knwo I am not an abuser... that is the incongruity....

@CuriousaboutSamphire the issue is the OP on that thread knew her dp hadnt done anything wrong, yet still felt he was wrong to ask for an apology.

She knew 2 months ago. Even during calm days (remember she said she only felt like this a few days a month) she still didnt feel he deserved an apology.

Do you see, you brought PMDD into a discussion when your circumstances were not the same at all, yet you muddy the waters?

The point you are missing is that most abuser have a root cause. Childhood abuse, PTSD, anxiety, depression, personality disorder etc the list goes on.

You also didnt say, once, on the last thread that you abused your dh.

The fact is, whatever the reason was, you abused your dp. By definition that made you an abuser. Doesnt that mean you will carry that label forever? No.

But does it mean, that at that time you were an abuser? Yes, it does.

If you hadnt have sought help, you would still ne an abuser. The OP of that thread is still an abuser.

How can you engage in abusive behaviour but not be an abuser?

What is an abuser?

Hido Not on this thread! I started those to get way from that thread.. please, don't continue the eror I made and concatenate the 2 issues!

Decomposing That is, I suspect, my question... When I had PMDD I was abusive. As soon as that was effectively treated I was no longer absuive. It was that clear cut, that immediate.

My point is that many women with PMDD will feel similarly and they don't have to: if they know they can be treated; if GPs are more aware; if people in general can accept that the abuse, if caused by PMDD, will stop as sooon as the PMDD is treated and so stop stigmatising sufferers and help them get treatment!

Curious Well your "fuck off" post has been deleted, just as the one that said you got away with abuse got deleted, so clearly MN think that was a personal attack too.

HidoNot on this thread! I started those to get way from that thread.. please, don't continue the eror I made and concatenate the 2 issues

No you started this thread in and faith and misrepresented why people said what they did in the last thread.

You brought the last thread into it. You also told someone to fuck off and reported them because they said what others on this thread have said too.

I am simply debating with you the points that you yourself made. Including those that you brought into it by referring to that thread.

If you didnt want that thread brought into it, why mention it at all?

My point is that many women with PMDD will feel similarly and they don't have to: if they know they can be treated; if GPs are more aware; if people in general can accept that the abuse, if caused by PMDD, will stop as sooon as the PMDD is treated and so stop stigmatising sufferers and help them get treatment!

But you yourself said that you didn't recognise what you were doing and didn't see the need to get help - that was your DP. So, would other women not have insight too?

Plus, what is the definition of an abuser?

You say that you aren't because as soon as you got treatment your abusive behaviour stopped. So, does that mean that someone who abused a partner but then stopped was never an abuser?

I am not surprised they deleted it. I expected them to, it does contravene the T+Cs after all!

Hiding because I feel PMDD is a poorly understood MH issue for women. That's it!

Decomposing that's why I would like others to be aware... And I know what an abuser is, I was, at that time, abusive. But am not, myself, in the absence of PMDD, an abuser. But I still fear its return... whcih is why DH and I have discussed it and have a contingency plan, just in case!

And, again, I am not comparing it to any other circumstance.

because I feel PMDD is a poorly understood MH issue for women. That's it!

So you can misrepresent the other thread, tall about it here and how it means people dont understand. And no one can challenge that view?

If you wanted to discuss it, you could have done. But you dont get to misrepresent what people have said, bring another thread into it, but decide that no one can explain or challenge what you have said or bring in the other thread.

You were completely wrong on the other thread. Despite there being, according to your own explanation huge differences between you and the OP. You didnt admit your behaviour was abusive. And when someone said it was and you had gotten away with it (which you did, as I said why you did it would be taken into account at sentencing, not about wether you would be charged or not) you claimed that was a personal attack. While personally attacking someone.

You decided that because this happen to you it must be what happening to the OP, even though people pointed out she posted before about other things.

And then came here and brought that thread up. So yes, people are right to challenge you

Raising awareness is always a good thing.

I'm just not sure how much insight people will have, given you yourself saying that you didn't recognise it in yourself.

Do you think, had you read about it, that you would have realised that it was what you possibly had or would you have dismissed it?

Challenge away Hiding But I reserve the right to think you are just hectoring and not engaging with what I am trying to say. My fault as I didn't approach it properly !

Decomposing No, I don't think I would necessarily have recognised it straight way, if at all. It was a very confusing, insular time. That's why I think everyone needs to know about it. Having spoken to a number of women, in a group aranged by just one GP I know that he symptoms vary wildly but that most women don't thnk they have a condition, they just think they are going ever so slightly round the twist - helped along by "She's just being hormal" comments! Almost all of them needed someone to intervene.

But I reserve the right to think you are just hectoring and not engaging with what I am trying to say. My fault as I didn't approach it properly

You do that. I am discussing what you out in your op. If you didnt want that to be discussed, then you shouldnt have put it in there. You cant then say, mid discussion, 'but that's not what this thread is about'. When that's what your op is exactly about.

I am not hectoring I am discussing yours point that being repeatedly abusive doesnt make someone an abuser. Despite the dictionary definition saying just that.

I am interested as to why you dont feel that at that time you were an abuser.

I am interested as to why you dont feel that at that time you were an abuser. And I thought I had explained the cognitive dissonance.... I was abusive when suffering from PMDD... as soon as I received effective treatment I stopped. It was directly caused by my body's hypersensitive reaction to the normal functioning of my endocrine system... I haven't denied being abusive at that time! I was. I was temporarily an abuser, but that is not who or what I am without that hormonal malfucntion.

It's a female condition... I just thought it might be something women could discuss and ponder outwith the normal response to DV... to see if it could be discussed like that, see if there could be a shift from the usual reaction of judgement and condemnation to understanding and, with more information, understanding, a first reaction to be to try and support the woman to seek help!

Without PMDD I am not abusive. As I come to the end of my GPs wilingness to continue to prescribe contraception I fear I may become abusive again... I have taken steps to avoid that - for 30 years I have taken those steps and have others in place just in case!

An alcoholic who no longer drinks is still an alcoholic.

A rapist who once committed rape is always a rapist. He's never a former rapist. Or "I was a rapist then".

I think the issue, OP, is not that people aren't interested or willing to discuss it. But your constant choice of language and tone do not help your cause one bit.

So.. an alcoholic chooses to drink, battles with it and fights it or life; a rapist chooses to to rape... no woman with PMDD chooses it and a simple medical intervention corrects a hormonal imbalance, a bodily malfunction peculiar to women!

You think the 3 are the same? False analogy.. and you think that MY tone is off!

You just said without PMDD you are not abusive but that it is possible you may become abusive again - in the same way an alcoholic can become a drunk again.

It's not a false analogy at all. An alcoholic battles not to drink again but may, as you say, chose to drink. And I'm sorry, but despite what you say, you CHOSE to control yourself so that you didn't abuse your boss, your colleagues, your friends in social situations but chose not to control yourself at home.

I haven't denied being abusive at that time! I was. I was temporarily an abuser, but that is not who or what I am without that hormonal malfucntion.

But you did. You told someone to fuck off who said you were an abuser.

That's all it took. You were at that time, for whatever reason, an abuser. But its tale almost a day and 2 threads for you to admit that.

So.. an alcoholic chooses to drink, battles with it and fights it or life; a rapist chooses to to rape...

Alcoholics generally have a reason. Childhood trauma, recent trauma, PTSD etc. They dont recognise their drinking is a problem most of the time and think they are right. They cant see they have an issue. They think its everyone else that does. They then get so drunk they, according, to them cant control their actions.

A rapist may have some sort of personality disorder/mental health issue hat contributes to their behaviour. They are still a rapist and whatever mental health issues they are struggling with doesnt change that.

Do you wonder why lots of rapists and murders end up being detained in a mental health facility? Because they have deemed to dangerous to have freedom, but need to have their mental health looked at

My rapist, raped me because he wanted complete control over me. He didnt do drugs, wasnt a drinker but was obsessed with controlling me. He raped me because he needed to prove he could control me. He needed to prove he was right and he was wrong. He has had extensive treatment, he is well now. I have nothing to do with him. He is a rapist.

Who are you to say the your condition means you arent an abuser, but a rapist (despite having a debilitating, personality changed mental health crisis) is a rapsit because they chose to rape.

Surely, you can see the argument. You are saying you didnt choose thos. Many people dont choose their behaviour during a mental health crisis, either. What makes your condition different to my exh breakdown?

I am asking this genuinely, because for me it very much sounds like you feel of abusers must have a good reason for what they do

Surely, you can see the argument. You are saying you didnt choose thos. Many people dont choose their behaviour during a mental health crisis, either. What makes your condition different to my exh breakdown?

This is what I'm struggling with op. Why is it only PMDD that seemingly excuses abuse but not other MH conditions?

And I'm sorry, but despite what you say, you CHOSE to control yourself so that you didn't abuse your boss, your colleagues, your friends in social situations but chose not to control yourself at home

^^This.

My mother was exactly the same. Could miraculously hold in the abuse against her friends, the vicar, people down the pub, the police, but when it came to us we were fair game. Apparently though she "couldn't help her hormones" and how they "made" her behave. Makes me sick.

Decomposinhg I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it is the one I was posting about.

And I'm not going back over the chocie thing... I don't think I will be able to explain it to pps satisfaction if they see it so black and white!

SHatner I sadi that#s what I fear... the medical reality is that once post menopausal it won't!

Hiding Apart form being someone who had the condition? No-one! I am not even claiming what you say I am! And I don't understand your genuine question... mainly because my point is that I was only ever abusive when ... oh never mind.

I'll take it back to my DH and GP. Have a proper conversation... and just hope that none of you are the right age to get it. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And this thread, as the others over the years I have tried to discuss it on, has only shown that there is no proper conversation to be had that does not have to start with "My name is Curious I am an abuser... now can we talk?"

I'd much rather be able to say "My name s Curious. For a brief period on my liofe I was abusive, here's why" and then have a discussion.

Good night all!

I'd much rather be able to say "My name s Curious. For a brief period on my liofe I was abusive, here's why" and then have a discussion.

Indeed. A much more palatable way to present ones self.

Apart form being someone who had the condition? No-one! I am not even claiming what you say I am! And I don't understand your genuine question... mainly because my point is that I was only ever abusive when ... oh never mind.

Exh was only ever abusive when he was having a breakdown. I still dont see your point.

Yes saying you were abusive is, imo, the right term. Some people will class you as an abuser, because you have abused. Even if its stopped. Like an alcoholic is always an alcoholic. That's a different discussion.

If you read this thread and the other back, that's nowhere near what you were saying.