Newsnight tonight: Britain's Experimented with Puberty blockers

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www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49036145

From Heather B-E:

"Britain's experiment with puberty blockers is set to be exposed tonight on Newsnight BBC 2 at 10.30 pm. Michael Biggs chapter in our latest book broke the story! t.co/FV5FLye1oX"

This should be interesting....

Is it used for precocious puberty? I know it's a different context as those children go through puberty (of the correct sex hormones) so is it the sole use of the drugs that's the problem or the combination with cross sex hormones/lack of proper puberty?

Tara Hewitt calling GIDS transphobic on the Twitters.

BBC are going to get a lot of bigot/transphobia comments now, which will be intetesting. Hope they get serious pile ons to see what it's like and then report on it.

I think the bit that disturbed me was Polly Carmichel speaking a couple of years ago about how they knew that all children who took puberty blockers went on to hormones but they didn't know why AND THEN she said this might mean they weren't giving it to enough children who might benefit from their use.

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body. And we should be recruiting more children for this process.

Ive not seen her speak before, but clip was disturbing.

The bandwidth of "Transphobia" has increased to = anyone who thwarts me, disagrees with me or asks questions?

Yes, I have seen that Popchyk

I suppose, with an elderly mother with osteoporosis, several fractures from falls, I'm wondering when these sort of consequences of low bone density will become apparent. As I understand it bone density increases at puberty and decreases post menopause in women, so the children on puberty blockers fail to lay down the additional bone growth/density, but their starting measurements don't decrease. Children don't normally get fractures in the way elderly people with osteoporosis do, but obviously failure to lay down those reserves will have consequences further down the road. Do we know when? I don't think anyone has been on these sorts of treatments long enough to have an answer but I'm sure sure consequences of damaged health will become apparent as these children age.

Happy to be corrected on any of that but that is my understanding.

Tara Hewitt calling GIDS transphobic on the Twitters.

Concerns about young children with potential osteoporosis = transphobic

I saw someone on Twitter earlier saying that GIDS was "inherintly transphobic" because it started from the premise that being trans was a "bad outcome". I've heard Monroe Berkdorf say similar, that even if some kids are falsely given drugs/ surgery it's OK because being trans isn't a bad outcome. Like, how do you even get your mind around believing something like that? In what possible universe could having dysphoria so crippling that the only treatment is to surgically alter your body, take life long CSH, and spend the rest of your life trying to gaslight yourself into believing you changed sex, be anything other than a bad outcome?! OF COURSE that's a bad outcome. A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

And no, no child who hasn't had it clearly spelled out to them that no matter what they read online, they are and always will be their "natal" sex, can give consent IMO.

Assume half the staff at the BBC are now downing tools and picketing - now Aunty Beeb has gone full T*RF

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body. And we should be recruiting more children for this process.

Yes that bothered me too.

Didn't Islan/Mermaids lay into GIDS recently as well? Their lobbying of GIDS and getting parents to lobby impacted GIDS in their favour before in lowering the age for PBs so maybe they are trying to pressure them again now?

It suggests that she thinks transition is the ultimate goal rather than desistance and comfort in your own body.

The emails of her conversations with Suzie Green from the data breech definitely gave that impression.

Women's bones increase in density up to the age of 35, then it starts to tail off until menopause when the loss of oestrogen means bone density plummets.

So, that's why young women avoiding dairy fats were a concern - dietary control meant they weren't getting enough bone density laid down before 35, therefore fracture risk increases.

This is of no concern for young trans identified females. We give them testosterone and put them into an artificial menopause, let their vaginas atrophy (that nearly killed Buck Angel) and their arteries fur up. It is quite far from "first do no harm".

Twitter thread re bone density studies

twitter.com/will_malone/status/1148000551608750080?s=12

A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

We have to be able to say that without being labelled as transphobic.

Fanny, you're right.

We don't know what puberty-blockers do to a female body that does not go through female puberty.

And, if that isn't scary enough, then we add testosterone to a female body that has not been through female puberty.

But we're just beginning to find out what actually does happen, I think.

And GIDS delaying and delaying and delaying publishing the outcomes of this study makes me think the situation is even worse than we have feared.

A good outcome is that the child reconciles themselves to reality and goes on to live their life free from being a life long patient.

Thats not a good outcome if you are a pharmaceutical company making these drugs.

Or

You are doctor in private practice who makes money from handing out these drugs, no questions asked, cos Self ID.

The Webberlys have taken to twitter pretty quickly to post citations disproving claims made on newsnight. Gotta protect your market.

And GIDS delaying and delaying and delaying publishing the outcomes of this study makes me think the situation is even worse than we have feared.

How will we know?

There is no control group.

It could be being delayed cos the study is just so badly set up and run, the study hasn't made any conclusions that they can present to anyone with half a brain.

Fanny I think it is generally accepted that trans people are at greater risk of osteoporosis in late middle age 'at the normal age that menopause would occur' as the Royal Osteoporosis Society have it:

theros.org.uk/information-and-support/understanding-osteoporosis/causes-of-osteoporosis-and-broken-bones/medications-for-transgender-people/

So yes, there are additional risks. The ROS win my prize for subtle wording. No rubbish like menstruators or cervix havers but they refer to the age at which menopause would occur. I personally like that.

I think that was an excellent programme, especially for the BBC. It really brought home to me as a GP the fact that when the music stops and the negligence cases start piling up its the doctors, nurses and psychologists who rushed these kids through for ideological reasons or fear of being called transphobic who will be in the dock. Mermaids etc will just walk away saying "we thought they knew what they were doing, they're the experts, we're just concerned parents".
The staff working in this field should be slowing down the pace of transition dramatically and starting to worry.

Fanny that thread is terrifying!

@2Rebecca If I were one of the medics who signed Stonewall's MOU on taking an affirmative approach to patients who identify as trans, I'd be worried. Surely they might quite literally end up in the dock?

e.g. Scotland's Chief Medical Officer (who, btw, is an obstetrician by training - she ought to know what a woman is)

www.psychotherapy.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/UKCP-Memorandum-of-Understanding-on-Conversion-Therapy-in-the-UK.pdf

It could be being delayed cos the study is just so badly set up and run, the study hasn't made any conclusions that they can present to anyone with half a brain.

In their Early Intervention Study report published last month, they list the 'outputs from the study'. This consists of 5 conference presentations by GIDS staff and two more on bone density and growth by other people using data from the GIDS study. No peer reviewed papers other than one which is 'in press' (still no sign of that being published).

It doesn't look good for a study which started in 2011.

Someone on twitter made a good point when replying to India Willoughby about Newsnight.

"It wasn't a trans piece. It was a child abuse piece"

Quite!