Newsnight tonight: Britain's Experimented with Puberty blockers

[Campervan69]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49036145

From Heather B-E:

"Britain's experiment with puberty blockers is set to be exposed tonight on Newsnight BBC 2 at 10.30 pm. Michael Biggs chapter in our latest book broke the story! t.co/FV5FLye1oX"

This should be interesting....

Despite the flaws I am so glad questions are now being asked in public by organisations like the BBC. It's a huge change. I wonder how the public figure "lefty dude bro" types like James O'Brien will react. I am sure he must watch Newsnight. His interview with Posie Parker a while back was embarrassingly bad and infuriating to listen to. I suppose there's enough going on politically for this to be ignored for a while, but if more comes out then it will be very hard to ignore.

@FannyCann
That twitter feed is now gone???

Isn't height in women associated with a higher risk of cancers. I think it's height above a certain amount above the average but it increases risk.

www.wcrf.org/int/blog/articles/2017/06/link-between-height-and-cancer-risk

quote from the above link: It is not a person’s height itself that increases cancer risk. Instead, it is the process that your body has undergone to make you tall, that is linked to cancer.

I really think that in years to come we’ll be looking back at this period of fucking about with healthy endocrinology with the same horror we now have for lobotomies.

Just passing on this message I saw elsewhere: "TAs are filing mass complaints re bias on Newsnight. A BBC journalist has told me that it always helps to have supportive comments, to balance out complaints, so they can show they are not "biased". If you have time, please can you leave positive feedback here (select the feedback button)": ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms

we’ll be looking back at this period of fucking about with healthy endocrinology with the same horror we now have for lobotomies.

Yes!

I'm going through the protocol that OldCrone so kindly located for me and I'm attempting to marry it up with the timeline revisions. Overall, my impression about the ethics approval is that they were concentrating on the wrong thing to some extent (the trial design) when they should have been scrutinising the evidence and ethical grounds for this.

Change society. Change it so that men don't represent a threat to other men who wish to dress differently, love differently, live differently.

Change many things but do not mess with the endocrinology of vulnerable children and young adults. The false messaging around this is pervasive and undermining the possibility for any sensible discussion (see Yaniv's bizarre views that are probably taken as biologically accurate even by those who are taken aback by JY).

Transactivists are filing mass complaints re 'bias' on the Newsnight coverage. Their aim is to shut down discussion on this important issue. Please consider sending the BBC a supportive comment, it just takes a minute to send feedback (link: ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms/) ssl.bbc.co.uk/faqs/forms/

Of course they're filing complaints. #nodebate has been spectacularly successful in enabling this group to remove rights from other protected groups and in enabling access to children and young people in order to push their particular narrative.
The idea that this can be contested and that most adults are concerned about actual harm from untested / unethical treatments on vulnerable children must be a massive shock.

Sherpas the lot of them

Deborah Cohen
@deb_cohen
Replying to
@zeno001
and
@susan_bewley
Interesting...I’ve spent last 10 yrs investigating unreported harms, data, research misconduct, conflicts of interest etc. You argue same standards of ethics and research integrity should be applied to puberty blockers—you argue for equity—& that’s considered biased or phobic

If they are complaining on grounds of transphobia that really shows how ridiculous the claims of transphobia are.

Like crying wolf though when there is actually transphobia people will ignore it.

Like crying wolf though when there is actually transphobia people will ignore it
Not only that they simultaneously whinge about poor health care. Seems.obky research into.positive outcomes is allowed but its terfs fault when no one knows what happens when something is done/prescribed and went wrong.

I have to be honest, I don't have a lot of sympathy with anyone complaining about poor health care when you have someone deliberately lying about their sex because it offends them, to the point that is hindering staff who want to help them and its affecting the health of other patients. Especially when it's being insisted being trans is not a mental health issue.

I know this is a bit of a detail but I have a couple of questions about puberty blockers....

Do they block puberty for ever? As an extreme example if someone was on puberty blockers until the age of 30 and then came off them would they then go through puberty, or would puberty eventually happen anyway by "breaking" through the blockers. Or will puberty never happen if blocked for long enough?

If a child is on puberty blockers and then cross sex hormones do they stop the puberty blockers? If so, does that child then go through puberty as normal (obviously impacted by the hormones they are taking).

If you go on puberty blockers, than cross sex hormones, you don't go through puberty. I think the cross sex hormones suppress the natural ones that would initiate puberty.

I also think that at a certain point people go past where puberty will happen, there is a window. But I may be wrong about that one.

Do they block puberty for ever?
The testosterone receptors will still be there, they might down regulate, they might atrophy.
They might not.

Coming off puberty blockers is very likely to cause a surge of testosterone.
This is the demonstrated in the behaviour of adolescent males.

Coming off long term puberty blockers is likely to cause a similar surge.

The clue is in the advice given for stopping the medication.

The advice given for coming off any long term medication is to reduce the dosage slowly and cautiously following your doctors advice.

The body will fight back strongly to retain its normal balance.

An aside,
If progesterone cream is made from pregnant mares urine (aka Premarin)

Does anyone know where they get the testosterone from? (for Ftm).
My guess is the horse racing industry ie, stud farms.

I could be wrong.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine - I think the best background read on this is:

www.transgendertrend.com/puberty-blockers/

The honest answer is that nothing is known for certain. Emphatically not the answer we want to hear about any intervention, particularly not one with lifelong consequences. The available evidence is from children and young people who used puberty blockers for a comparatively short time period with an agreed stopping point (e.g., delaying early menses in girls until they are 12 rather than 8, as can happen).

I doubt anyone has conducted a case study of someone who has artificially blocked puberty until the age of thirty without crossing over to hormone therapy. For various reasons, I'd be startled if you could pass through puberty with an adult body in some ways but not in some other critical ways. At this point, I give up thinking I'd even know what happens to the adolescent growth spurt or the laying down of calcium in the bones, or the changes in body composition, or the cardiovascular or pulmonary systems in this context. There will be some developments through different pathways, but they will be lesser.

For children, it looks like puberty blockers are transitional until such time as they're ready to begin cross-hormonal treatment (if they decide to do this and depending on age and other restrictions within that country's medical system) and then the prescription and interplay of suppressors and other hormones begins.

Not sure this has helped.

Apologies - I took so long writing the above that I xd with Goosefoot and Wrath.

www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/ch7kqi/looking_to_speak_to_gids_tavi_puberty_blockers/

Looks like ‘DadTrans’ from twitter is desperately trying to discredit serious professional concerns about dosing vulnerable kids with powerful drugs.

No one knows what happens with long term puberty blockers and cross sex hormones?

They know.
Pharmaceutical industry knows
Farming industry knows
Horse racing industry surely

Countries that have dubious ethical controls.
They know, how could they not know?

This is lengthy and I can't remember relevant parts but I did find it interesting.

.............................

3Sex Begins in the Womb

Publication Details

ABSTRACT

Sex differences of importance to health and human disease occur throughout the life span, although the specific expression of these differences varies at different stages of life. Some differences originate in events occurring in the intrauterine environment, where developmental processes differentially organize tissues for later activation in the male or female. In the prenatal period, sex determination and differentiation occur in a series of sequential processes governed by genetic and environmental factors. During the pubertal period, behavioral and hormonal changes manifest the secondary sexual characteristics that reinforce the sexual identity of the individual through adolescence and into adulthood. Hormonal events occurring in puberty lay a framework for biological differences that persist through life and that contribute to variable onset and progression of disease in males and females. It is important to study sex differences at all stages of the life cycle, relying on animal models of disease and including sex as a variable in basic and clinical research designs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK222286/

Perhaps you end up like Tom Hanks in Big

Looks like ‘DadTrans’ from twitter is desperately trying to discredit serious professional concerns about dosing vulnerable kids with powerful drugs.

As the parent of a 'trans kid', DadTrans is personally invested in this, and like Susie Green, can't afford to have any doubts about the path he has taken on behalf of his child.

Just coming back to say that I posted earlier that although the programme wasn't that radical but good that the BBC aired it as it might feed into other parts of the media thinking they could also be a bit more critical of the trans agenda.

I was wrong!

Not one paper as far as I know has picked up on this.

But also to say (as i always do) twitter is one of the least used social media platforms so what might seem like a flurry of push back is in terms of numbers about the same as 2 drunk men having a scuffle in a dodgy bar.

www.lifesitenews.com/mobile/news/puberty-is-not-a-disease-italian-council-moves-to-ban-gender-bending-drugs-for-kids?__twitter_impression=true

According to the council’s motion, “puberty is not a disease” and thus should not be prevented with surgery and medications that can produce irreversible effects. It also noted the long-term negative effects of drugs containing triptorelin.

“There is no evidence, in fact,” reads the motion, “on the effective full restoration of fertility in the case of withdrawal from treatment.”

Linguistic engineering precedes and accompanies social engineering

And don't we all know it.

How could transdad say anything else without admitting he'd harmed his child?