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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans woman being threatening at work

100 replies

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:08

I've name changed for this as it could be very outing, it's such a bizarre situation.
I work in a library. One of our long term customers, who I would class as vulnerable with clear mental health issues has recently declared themselves to be a trans woman. They are well over six feet tall, and now generally wear a frilly tutu over a mankini à la Borat, a corset top, ripped fishnets and New Rocks, along with a terrible wig. (This is the outing bit as anyone from my area might recognise them).
They have changed their name and sex on our database, and have started borrowing books for the first time. I think they are very vulnerable, and once or twice they have come in with obvious bruises, maybe from being beaten up? They also have a little blue haired handmaiden who hangs around with them (I know this all sounds cliched but I swear it's true!)
A few weeks ago they asked me if I would help them with makeup advice. I said that would not be appropriate. They have since got loads of makeup advice books, and now present with a face full of badly applied, smeared makeup. They have also started talking in a high pitched little girl voice. To be frank, I find them very disturbing.
Last week they seem to have a new tactic - going up to female members of staff (never the men - funny that) and asking for books on sex. They have also asked inappropriate questions about whether staff enjoy sex. If told they are being inappropriate they actually have a tantrum.
Our management say we have to treat them as a woman, but I am beginning to feel like I'm being sexually abused as part of this person's fantasies. I'm tempted to report them to the police as I feel violated.
Any advice?

OP posts:
JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 21/07/2019 11:13

Yeah report it to the police. And when you do, report it as a man sexually harassing female staff in your place of work. Don’t mention their transgender status, that gives the police the option of whether they want to be involved. Just report it for what it is, a man harassing women.

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:15

My main worry is that my local police force is West Yorkshire, who seem to have well and truly swallowed the trans bullshit.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 21/07/2019 11:16

Do you have any kind of HR support? If a woman was doing this it would still be inappropriate, particularly questions about sex and whether you or another employee enjoys sex. That is not a normal, every day question and nothing to do with your job.

I don't think you can report them as no crime has been committed but if you feel uncomfortable your employer shouldn't be dismissive.

Can you direct them to a male employee if they approach you?

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:18

They have said they don't like dealing with male staff!

OP posts:
JoxerGoesToStuttgart · 21/07/2019 11:18

OK so worst case scenario is you report and the police don’t do anything. That’s not a reason not to report.

CatalogueUniverse · 21/07/2019 11:21

Inappropriate is inappropriate.

Regardless of all the unusual stuff- your staff do not have to deal with anyone asking them personal inappropriate questions. It’s not treating them as a man to say no to that.

LangCleg · 21/07/2019 11:21

Gosh. Almost as though the entire bingo card has been ticked off.

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:24

Langcleg I'm assuming you don't believe me? Believe me, I wish it weren't true.

OP posts:
ZebrasAreBras · 21/07/2019 11:29

If this was reported to WYP, I have a feeling the reporter would end up on some sort of transphobic hate incident list.

Surely no customer - be them male or female, or regardless of gender identity - should be able to harass staff by asking them about sex? This is for your management to sort out - they have a duty to protect staff from sexual harassment.

Could you raise a grievance with Management/HR?

OpheliaTodd · 21/07/2019 11:32

😮

RubberTreePlant · 21/07/2019 11:35

He needs banning from the library. I'd pursue that goal, rather than WYP.

DishingOutDone · 21/07/2019 11:36

If a someone born as a female, maybe a vulnerable person, was doing this then would it be ok? Its not the appearance of these people that is the issue, its what they are saying/doing - making people feel uncomfortable with overt sexual references.

If they just want to hang around in tutus then they can knock themselves out, but if they are intimidating others then it doesn't matter if they identify as male, female or absolute wankers - either your management need to bar them or the police can give them a warning.

FormerMediocreMale · 21/07/2019 11:37

Are you a union member? HR/management as others have said have a duty to protect staff from harassment. Harassment is both a civil and criminal offence. Sexual harassment is not ok regardless of sex or how you identify

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:38

I am a union member. Management don't have a great track record in banning people.

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FossiPajuZeka · 21/07/2019 11:40

Sexual harassment is sexual harassment whatever the gender of the person doing it. This person's behaviour is sexual harassment and must be treated as such. No reasonable person of any gender identity would behave in this way. This is not a reasonable person.

Yes employers have a duty of care to protect staff from sexual harassment. Raise it as a formal issue. Use gender neutral terminology - don't make this an issue about trans, it's their behaviour that is unacceptable, not their identity.

FormerMediocreMale · 21/07/2019 11:42

Contact your union. You could refer simply to a member of public without stating they are trans - as this in terms of what is happening is irrelevant as no one should harass you in this way.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 21/07/2019 11:43

I used to be a librarian. I know our management generally tend to be the leftest of the left and completely out of touch with the day-to-day work, but I'm gobsmacked that it's gone as far as tolerating, even fairly effectively enabling, sexual harassment at work. Library people can be vulnerable to mentally people, as the one place where everyone is supposed to be welcomed without judgement, etc etc: but that has to be recognised.

Get thee to the Union and complain most strenuously, and encourage your colleagues to do the same. If you don't get any joy from management I would complain to the police, useless as they are.

BishopBrennansArse · 21/07/2019 11:44

Most of your description in the OP is irrelevant it doesn't matter who it is if they are asking inappropriate sexual questions and making you feel uncomfortable it's harassment. You can report any person who is doing this for sexual harassment completely apart from any identity they may have.

DarkAtEndOfTunnel · 21/07/2019 11:44

And watch out that they don't ask for, let alone get, personal details of staff or start hanging around watching where you go after the library closure! Basic personal safety.

Mishtry · 21/07/2019 11:47

Should be banned, if it were a bog standard bloke coming into the library and harassing female staff they would be banned. This is no different, you shouldn’t be made to feel uncomfortable at work. Definitely go to your union and complain to management in writing. Ask HR for policies on harassment of staff by service users.

AncientLights · 21/07/2019 11:50

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GrapefruitIsGross · 21/07/2019 11:50

Can you make a list of the times, dates and specific remarks that the individual has made to you? The ones you can remember. And continue recording any inappropriate behaviour.

If your manager refuses to address it after being presented with the specifics, then straight to the union. It’s likely your local rep or industrial relations bod will suggest that you give your manager the opportunity to sort it before they step in, but in my experience the union will take your allegations very seriously.

RosesAndRaindrops · 21/07/2019 11:50

What's the fact it's a transwoman got to do with the price of fish?
That's an awful lot of unnecessary description of appearance - inappropriate behaviour is awful and harassment whoever it's coming from.

perpetuallyperplexedbylife · 21/07/2019 11:55

Rosesandraindrops it's the fact that this sexually threatening behaviour has only manifested itself since this person came out as trans that is relevant - and the fact that a trans woman is tiptoed around in terms of how they are dealt with, in contrast with how a man would be treated.

OP posts:
LassOfFyvie · 21/07/2019 11:56

You could refer simply to a member of public without stating they are trans

If all of this is true it is completely irrelevant that the person is trans.No library user should be asking these questions of library staff. Mentioning in your complaint that the person is trans is as relevant as saying they are tall or have blue eyes- ie not at all.

Or worse, mentioning it could be taken as meaning because if they weren't trans you would not be complaining.

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