Why some young women are so Woke

[lucasthecat]

I am very gender critical - and the bollox of TWAW and the idea of a female penis makes my head spin. My eldest daughter totally disagrees and we have reached a mutual agreement not to discuss the topic. She is a physics graduate quite cool and has a busy social life. She has recently stopped working in a bar in a northern town after 18 months because of the non stop Pervy comments from blokes exacerbated by a leachorous boss. During her degree some of her male classmates constantly dismissed her as thick - but fit - because of how she looks ( she got a 2.1 with some distinctions) in her world the problems are traditional masculinity - the support she gets from LGBT friends and the Woke feel like the solution - I saw the world through her eyes in a way I hadn’t before - I still don’t believe TWAW etc - but it was a different conversation . I don’t think she is stupid or unquestioning - she is judging the world on her experience and at the moment the threat of Trans does not register compared to old school mysoginy

Social media, lobby groups, rainbow sparkles every sodding thing... young women haven’t really grown up with the crap we did.

She may well punch me if I tell her it used be a lot worse and she should be grateful but I know what you mean

Leave her to it. She will hit her peak when it slaps her in the face. Then try not to say ‘told you so’. There will be something that will rhyme with her.

I think young women now are so woke because they don't see that what is actually happening is that they're being told, by men, what to think and what to do and how to act.

But it's dressed up as being woke and therefore is the only way to think/be without being turned on by a mob.

It's not easy to be the lone voice among a crowd, especially when you're young.

The activists in this particular campaign are very adept at screeching transphobia and verbally (and sometimes physically) threatening anyone who disagrees. They're everywhere online, and launch mass attacks on even moderate criticism of TWAW.

So it's easier to agree, and being conditioned, as a woman, to defer to men is a story as old as time.

They don't realise that that's what is happening, because they see themselves as history makers.

History will judge very differently I hope. The tide appears to be turning with the stories coming out of the Tavistock clinic and eminent consultants/doctors speaking out.

But it will take time.

Most young women aren’t woke.

DD is gender critical.

Incidentally, it's ludicrous that I had to think so bloody carefully about how to phrase every sentence of my previous post for fear of a ban.

But it's very neatly proving the point that if you disagree, you'll be silenced. Even by MNHQ.

If she graduated this year and / or is still socialising with the same group from her university, having graduated earlier, I suspect that she won't yet be able to separate herself from the prevailing ideas of that group; ie: that playing games with [aka 'queering'] language is more relevant than dealing with reality.

Like LordProf I think she will come to the truth in her own time and I doubt it will take too long. If she is aware of the current Yaniv situation this might raise some challenging questions for her.

You could also throw the word 'gametes' around, if you wanted to be really mischievous

What does 'woke' mean? is it a new adjective? I thought it was a past tense verb?

DS is a stubborn child - but even he has been aware of this since year 5 and is firmly unwoke.

He has mentioned the trans bullying (and by this he meant bullying by the trans activist to shut down any debate and discussion and to push gay kids to the trans side). He’s only 14 but I’m very proud that he opened his eyes and used his brain. I didn’t coach him either!

What does 'woke' mean? is it a new adjective? I thought it was a past tense verb?

It is. But much like many other actual words, the meaning has been changed to suit an agenda.

It's implying anyone who disagrees is asleep and therefore clueless.

Because the woke movement is, on the face of it, warm and accepting. It's being drawn to a shiny light, getting that sense of being on the 'right side' and standing up for justice is a powerful feeling. Until it's not and you go to the dark side where we have questioning minds, biscuits, wine and cool t-shirts.

She'll get there.

I graduated uni last year, in my eyes the young male 'woke' aren't any better than the lecherous men they are just better at hiding it.

Often the male woke are just incredibly arrogant, well spoken men who have learnt how to voice their opinions in a way that women listen. A lot of it is just parroting woke opinions to each other to out woke one another. It's not a safety net really because these people are just as misogonistic as the men who dismiss your DD as thick, and a lot of these people will equally dismiss your DD as thick but again better at hiding it.

For example in a group of friends I have who consider themselves 'woke' we've discussed trans rights a lot (I've kept my mouth shut), gay rights a fair bit, racism quite a bit but no serious discussion on women's rights. We recently had a discussion on why gay men don't like lesbians, totally seriously pondering it. When it was quite blatant they just didn't like women

If you actually speak to these people that really haven't considered women's rights at all, they are just reading Tumblr and parroting.

Or if you take the prostitution debate,

It's woke to consider that prostitution should be legal, and that prostitutes are just women who love sex

But my woke friends have never actually thought about it, never actually considered what it means for a man to pay for sex or for a woman to be a prostitute.

We walked through the red light district marvelling at the prostitutes, laughing at how x had visited one etc. When I said it made me uncomfortable because a lot of the women are trafficked everyone looked at me uncomfortably, brushed over it and carried on talking about the wonder of legalised prostitution. How great it was the women were protected, because they don't really give a shit about women's rights. They only give a shit about appearing to care about women's rights

I think life experience will wake up a lot of the woke young women in future, to be honest.

I was probably quite woke / LibFem in my 20s. Life has brought me very firmly to being GC and radfem in my 40s. Motherhood certainly has clarified my position, especially as the mother of a daughter.

Your daughter's experience is much like many of our own when we were younger.......and when many of us were allies to the LGB movement ( if not lesbians ourselves) and 'best friends' with gay men.

Your daughter's generation also takes for granted many of the recent gains that women have made; and in the great scheme of things, these gains are really only very recent indeed.

Age, experience, relationships and having children, especially, changes your outlook on life - and for women it is having children that changes us the most. Our position and status in society changes quite dramatically once we have children - and we become very aware of our position as women, as females.

It is the deep recognition of the female condition which shapes much of our feminism, and much of that will only come with age.

What does 'woke' mean? is it a new adjective? I thought it was a past tense verb?

Woke implies a certain progressive/liberal set of attitudes which tend towards the 'right on' and politically correct. It tends to be associated with tribalistic 'group think'.

Do they woke say woke? (I may say woke but think ‘arsehole’). 😉

This all sounds really patronising about your clearly intelligently and free thinking daughter. You’re no better than her male class mates that think she’s stupid.

In your early 20s it's easier to see the world as very black and white - or perhaps it's that the way experience and understanding of the world leads one to categorise the world in simplistic ways; this is good, this is not and you look "those more knowledgeable" for more info/ affirmation.

So organisations such as stonewall or pride, papers such as the Guardian etc guide your ideas and you don't spend a lot of time questioning it.

Often teens have rebelled and questioned their parents towards these ideas so they aren't going to suddenly turn about.

Also identity within a group and wider group moving into adult hood proper matters a lot at that age. So you're not going to alienate yourself.

A lot of this stuff actually need explicitly pointing out. I think I had an underlying feeling I couldn't put into words till I saw those words in print, over and over, here and in various places. And I'm in my early 40s.

My daughter age 16 is a bit eye-rolly at TWAW.

This is so true. I think young women can if they have it all sewn up, degree, well paid job, respect at work believe that they're on an upward trajectory with no interruption. They don't realise that having a child (unless they're lucky enough to have a very well paid job, a very supportive partner who takes 50% of the responsibility, and bosses who don't relegate you/sideline you as a mother) often lowers your status significantly.

''Age, experience, relationships and having children, especially, changes your outlook on life - and for women it is having children that changes us the most. Our position and status in society changes quite dramatically once we have children - and we become very aware of our position as women, as females.''

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies - I agree it will be life that opens her eyes not me! What struck me was the blatant misogyny of men in her bar grabbing her and making awful comments - her gay friend (works in the bar) who is trans supporting - threw the customer out - and her friend is a lovely young man - other than his belief TWAW!!! Why can’t life be simple ☺️

I also see woke bros as misogyny in new clothes.

This misogyny is so clear when you have young men screaming about TERFs.

The very fact that a word like TERF is so socially acceptable in woke circles shows their complete lack of self-reflection. This word is extremely offensive and is used almost exclusively to shut down women talking. It is used to shut down any disagreement to the party line and is used with such venom. It's a word in which misogyny can be let rip and the bile and fury unleashed by men while using the term is a dead giveaway.

It is used to describe an apparent unfeeling monster of a person trolling the world looking for innocent woke persons who are deeply human.

I cannot think of any group that is allowed to be demonized by the use of a highly offensive word such as TERF. It is used in the most politically incorrect way imaginable but the woke youngsters have not reflected enough to really analyze who are these TERFs exactly?!

@QueenofPain - I’m a parent I’ve got my own views - I don’t think the penis can ever be female - if that makes me as bad as the men who grab my daughter at work - well so be it - I listen and talk to all my children - and I think I made it clear I understand why she thinks old school men are her problem - and at the moment she’s right - anyway @Queenofpain - do you think a Penis can be female and how do you define the word Woman?

I need to add that I have never at any point thought that twaw not that their rights were part of feminism.

But I'll admit that I believed that 'feminism' in the west had been 'achieved' till a few years ago - I work in a female dominated field and so had been relatively naive to any work place misogyny that my friends who are in stem industries experience.

Becoming a mother and seeing many friends fighting their way out of abusive relationships in my mid 30s was when I realised feminism was still needed. Still never included tw though.