Y chromosome

[Watchfulwaiter]

To avoid current derail of thread about Dr Em

I think I am. I'm not sure you are though. Society isn't separated from men and their natures. Patriarchal society is an expression of it.

Here's another example. Up until 1991 it was legal in the UK for men to rape their wives. Men wanted it that way - their own wives, who they allegedly married because they loved them. It was feminists who got the law changed, not men.

What is wrong with men that they would even countenance this?

Contrary to early impressions, this has actually been quite an informative thread.

And just to note that one of the things FWR has taught me is not to assume someone is correct just because they are a professor. Being a professor does not stop you writing inane and verifiably incorrect drivel being mistaken.

How is her research inane and verifiably incorrect drivel TheBullshit? Please elaborate.

That was not directed at Graves. Sorry. It is directed at another well known (on this board) professor who writes total bollocks and has singlehandedly reduced my previously high regard for academia. A glowing CV is not enough for me to accept someone's conclusions without some further digging.

If you're talking about Sally Hines, then there is no comparison between her and Jenny Graves. Graves is a highly esteemed and successful scientist and academic in her field. Sally Hines, on the other hand, has been promoted because she harms women.

There are few places to hide in science, given that other scientists will be assessing your work. And a whole lot of contrarians on FWR it appears.

LOL she's an emeritus professor in ecology and evolution and she's studied the Y chromosome directly. Do your qualifications match that?

It’s still a copy and paste job of her biography. It isn’t an answer to my questions. That isn’t how science proceeds.

We don’t go ‘Look at my certificates; I’m obviously right.’ I don’t care if she spent 50 years sticking her finger up a koala’s butt. She’s still wrong.

We're not proceeding with science here, we're having a discussion. I have even less faith in your scientific qualifications if you're confusing a chat on a talkboard with actual science.

You just use different terminology from her ("streamlined" - that's a PR job if I ever saw one). Given she actually did the research and wrote the paper on it and is an expert in the field, I'm more inclined to listen to her than you.

And that shit about "sticking a finger up a koala's butt' - way to go degrading and diminishing the achievements of a distinguished and successful female scientist. Are you finding it hard to keep the misogyny in check? Like I said your slip is showing.

All I’m seeing is lusts of shitty things men did and no attempt whatsoever at linking it causally with the ‘degradation’ of the Y chromosome. Endlessly reiterating your dislike of men makes your claims about the Y chromosome less and less credible.

And yes, it is like race science. It’s like people reeling off accounts of genocide in Rwanda or the crime stats in the US to defend the proposition that black people are genetically inferior.

Men aren't exactly helping themselves either. It appears the environment they have created is having a deleterious effect on their fertility:

www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2018/10/sperm-counts-continue-to-fall/572794/

And that shit about "sticking a finger up a koala's butt' - way to go degrading and diminishing the achievements of a distinguished and successful female scientist. Are you finding it hard to keep the misogyny in check?

Oh, yes, I must be a misogynist because I don’t take the word of a wallaby doctor over people like Cordelia Fine and Gina Rippon who say there are no innate differences in male and female behaviours. But what do they know, they’ve only looked at research in humans and out closest relatives, not animals so far removed from us biologically that they don’t even have a placenta.

I'm not linking it to the degradation of the Y chromosome. I've already said that. I said I was linking it to the Y chromosome full stop, whether it's degraded or not.

It's fuck all like race science. Men are the oppressors in all sorts of ghastly ways, not the oppressed. Men are horrifically violent across cultures and across time, whilst women aren't. Sexual perversions are almost uniquely male too. There's something going on there and "society" doesn't answer the question in the slightest. It appears to be innate, hence genetic.

Her lab researches into human beings as well, including the Y chromosome in men, if you missed that. Yes you sound extremely misogynistic.

More positives from her work:

"Her work has led to discoveries that have helped improve understanding of human disorders involving the immune system and blood proteins as well as the strange contagious cancer that has been threatening the Tasmanian devil with extinction."

www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/18/jenny-graves-wins-australias-250000-prime-ministers-prize-for-science

Guess those koalas have something to say to us after all. What have you done by the way? Anything as good as that? Or is it just "proceeding with science" on Mumsnet?

Men aren't exactly helping themselves either. It appears the environment they have created is having a deleterious effect on their fertility

What has any of this to do with anything we are talking about? It’s just random bollocks now.

You have claimed that the ‘degradation’ of the Y chromosome causes male violence as it spirals down to extinction.

It’s like you genuinely believe something is rotting and it is manifesting as a spiritual degradation.

Back this up.

I’m not asking you to name someone who believes it, I am asking you to present an argument to support this.

"You have claimed that the ‘degradation’ of the Y chromosome causes male violence as it spirals down to extinction. "

No I haven't. You're confusing my posts with Sakura's.

And social scientists and scientists need to do proper research into the propensity for violence and perversion in male humans. Do Cordelia Fine or Gina Rippon even address this? We all know it exists, we just pretend that there's no reason to investigate it.

James Watson cracked the structure of DNA. He’s one of the most important biologists of the 20th Century. He’s also a racist. A professional qualification doesn’t mean you aren’t blinded by prejudice.

I really don’t give a toss about her qualifications, I want to hear your arguments. I really don’t know what the hell you are citing her in support of your claim that Male Malevolence is expressed in the Y chromosome. Were they particularly wicked wallabies and cruel koalas that she studied? Are Tasmanian devils as demonic as their name would suggest?

No I haven't. You're confusing my posts with Sakura's.

So it wasn’t you who brought Jenny Graves into the conversation?

Well, I checked, and this was you wasn’t it?

Erythronium

Here's an article by Jenny Graves who wrote the first paper on the degradation of the Y chromosome. Here's what she has to say about it:

"The X bears about 1,600 genes with varied functions. But the Y has hardly any genes; maybe 50, and only 27 of these are in the male-specific part of the Y. Many are present in multiple copies, most of them inactive, lying in giant loops of DNA. Most of the Y is made of repetitive “junk DNA”. Thus the human Y shows all the signs of a degraded chromosome near the end of its life."

I'm not citing her in support of that. You appear to be struggling with reading comprehension. I was citing her in support of the argument that the Y chromosome is degraded. It is and she did the research on it. I noted her qualifications because I'll take her word that it's degraded over your opinion any day of the week.

It doesn't take a scientist to know that men are grossly violent. We just need to look at the world around us and what they've done throughout history. I already asked someone if they really thought male "entitlement" was what led to genocide. I haven't had an answer, but it's probably one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen on here.

I've argued two things

1. the Y chromosome is degraded (supported by Jenny Graves' research)

2. men are innately violent (supported by their observable behaviour)

I didn't say those two things were linked, in fact I said the opposite.

Please point out where in Graves' research she's blinded by prejudice.

What are you citing her for? Are you making two separate, equally wrong arguments, that (a) the Y chromosome is melting away like the Wicked Witch of the West (Grave’s claim) and that (b) Original Sin lurks on the Y chromosome?

The Y chromosome has degraded. Fact.,

The Y chromosome will continue to degrade. Debatable.

Men are horrifically violent. Fact. War, genocide, rape, murder, gynocide, armies, nuclear bombs, environmental destruction. All facts. All created and enacted by men.

You can call it "original sin" because mocking is clearly all you have left but men do those things and on a feminist board we need to be asking why.

Sakura was asking why, and she speculated it was down to the degraded Y chromosome, hence the two arguments became linked. She might be right. We don't know. You certainly don't.