Just had a terrible shouty argument with a relative

[failingatlife]

Oh God just need to rant. I've just had a terrible stand up argument with my DB in front of my 3 kids, his DC, his wife and my mum. We quite often talk about politics, brexit, Scottish indy, trump etc. As feminists my DM and I are obviously all over the whole gender issue so this also comes up.

Today, it was VAWG and it got very heated. To cut a long story short my DB is sick of feeling guilty about male violence. He has never been violent or raped /sexually assaulted anyone and us bringing it is making him feel bad. NAMALT. Apparently women do bad things too. Myra Hindley was mentioned . We were both shouting and DB got extremely angry and red faced.

I'm embarrassed about losing it in front of my family but bloody hell his pathetic arguments about it being 'a human problem not a male one' made me mad! He also said to DD, not in front of me,' I hope you dont end up a misandrist like your mum'

DD pointed out afterwards that he had just shown how male anger is a problem. She said she thought he might hit me he got so angry so fast. (I never felt physically threatened BTW the last time he hit me was about age 10). It was a good lesson for DD about male attitudes. She thinks he was a bully shouting down women (dm & I) with stupid non arguments who expected to be listened to just because he's a man.

So we shouldn't bring up MVAWG cos it upsets the menz? How exactly are we supposed to tackle something we can't talk about?

Post!

Should I not discuss the fact that two teenage girls were groped (separately but 1 perpetrator) in a busy shopping street at 3pm last Monday?

Surely talking to your children about safety is entirely different to having a slanging match with your DB? You can do one without doing the other.

For whatever reason, it seems that you and your brother can't discuss these topics so why not stick to safe topics of conversation when you are together?

My friend and I have completely opposite views politically so we just avoid talking about it because we would no doubt fall out. She will never convince me to her side not her to mine so what's the point?

Your brother was being a dick, OP. Hope it didn’t spoil your day.
Decomposing, what is your issue? You seem to be very busy trying to pick a fight.

How exactly are we supposed to tackle something we can't talk about?

This is it exactly

Cant talk to your mum or sil or daughter or friend if there is a man there and they get upset

Sod that for a game of monkeys

StroppyWoman

I just find it hypocritical to complain about a man arguing and losing his temper when the OP did exactly the same.

Most posters are saying that the OP wasn't to blame, she was just reacting to her DB but the opposite argument wouldn't wash - if a man said it was a woman's fault that he list his temper and started shouting no one but that. He'd be told that it's up to him to control himself.

Why doesn't that apply to the OP? Are we not responsible for our own actions?

Decomposing, what is your issue? You seem to be very busy trying to pick a fight

Not just on this thread.

Totally agree rufus. If he’s too much of a delicate flower to handle the conversation, he should go elsewhere. He doesn’t get to dictate what the women talk about or how they do it.

Not just on this thread.

I don't agree with the opinions posted - why is that a problem?

Said man should have stayed out of a conversation that neither involved him nor was about him, and he certainly shouldn't have made the sexual intimidation of young girls something that he was the victim in!

Ffs. People wonder why feminism is needed? Shit like this is why.

Don't feel bad about it. It's taught your DD a very valuable lesson.

The first rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for everything that men do.

DecomposingComposers

Not just on this thread.

I don't agree with the opinions posted - why is that a problem?

At this rate it seems you don’t agree with any opinions posted on FWR which raises the question as to why you post here at all except to be confrontational and goady. This is not a debate forum.

This is not a debate forum.

What is it then? Surely the whole site is for people to discuss opinions? Where does it say that this is only for people who agree with everything posted?

I think the person who wades in to correct other people’s point of view is responsible for causing the argument. Now it maybe certain arguments are justifiable but in a group setting people are hard wired to fight their corner and not give an inch.

There are certain people I love a robust exchange of ideas with, but there is always the element of respect and whilst things may get spirited it’s never reduced to shouting at someone. People I feel I’d be in danger of that with I just ignore and move on to other people.

OP:

I have a relative who is like that. As in he will jump into conversations not involving him at all to throw his opinions (which we must obey!) around. Specifically around issues involving abortion, surrogacy, and women’s reproductive rights as a whole. Twist: he is a gay male who has never had to concern himself with being pregnant or with getting a woman pregnant.

While he has calmed down over the years generally I also know him in the past to have a truly frightening temper (also which he would be physical with me when we were young) which back then drew me to stay silent. Now I am too old for that and don’t give a fuck. I won’t deliberately start such conversations with him but if he jumps in to one he was not part of I will stand my ground unapologetically.

While not the way you wanted it to go, clearly your daughter saw it and I bet most others there did too. Don’t apologize for standing your ground against your brother jumping into a conversation that was not about him to make it about him.

The first rule of misogyny is that women are responsible for everything that men do.

Isn't it just.

Don't feel bad about it. It's taught your DD a very valuable lesson.

Agreed. Obviously arguing in front of teens isn't ideal, but I'm of the opinion that just shutting up because a man started being aggressive would have set a far more damaging example to your DD.

Sometimes things are worth shouting about.

X post FeministCat

Discussion and sharing of different opinions can be held in a respectful way instead of repeatedly telling an OP they are “wrong” while ignoring everything they are actually saying about what happened. You are curiously insistent on placing “equal blame” when OP is clear her DB wandered into a conversation he was not part of, became shouty first, and to the point OPs DD thought he was going to become physically violent. But sure, “equal blame” as OP stood her ground against his asshole behaviour.

decomposer I did not post this in AIBU as I wasn't looking for posters to say I was right or I was wrong. I posted out of the frustration of not being able to discuss an issue because of a male's feelings. Maybe focus on how we can have this discussion without it descending into men v women NAMALT etc rather than how awful I am for having a loud shouty argument (there was no swearing or personal insults) in front of my kids.

Exactly failingatlife”. All of MN is not a “debate forum”. I sure hope that even posters like Decomposing* don’t see members reaching out for support when struggling with PPD, or with an abusive partner, as a post wanting of “debate”. Like you said AIBU is a good opportunity for debate, but sometimes people just want support and if one can’t offer it then there is no requirement for them to post at all.

Christ what a numb nut 🤦‍♀️

Maybe focus on how we can have this discussion without it descending into men v women NAMALT etc rather than how awful I am for having a loud shouty argument (there was no swearing or personal insults) in front of my kids.

But you are changing it slightly now - in your OP you said that you were both shouting and you lost it - that's what I was basing my comments on.

From what you've said, I don't think that you can have these types of discussion with your brother. You say you argue about lots of topics so it isn't just feminist topics is it?

Why not just agree to keep things cordial and reserve discussing topics like this with people that you know it won't descend into slanging matches with?

Obviously arguing in front of teens isn't ideal, but I'm of the opinion that just shutting up because a man started being aggressive would have set a far more damaging example to your DD.

And maybe a better example would be showing the DD how to debate respectfully or to know when to be the bigger person and walk away? I don't think it's a great example to teach a teen to go toe to toe with someone, telling and screaming as a way to get your point across, regardless of who started it.

What does your mum think about it all, OP?

Does anyone else ever get the feeling that some posters only post to hear themselves talk?

Poor kids. Heck, poor neighbours! You both need anger management. If current affairs bother you so immensely then go into Politics

your brother obviously believes strongly in the 10th rule of misogyny:

The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad

try to not let the full time contrarians on this thread wind you up too much