In plain sight

[DefinitelyNotMe]

I am looking at you, BBC.

astonishing that grassroots LGBT groups could not participate in the main march because they couldn't afford the fees

kind of says it all really

I know this has been mentioned before, but the thing that gets me is that for so long, gay people fought to tell the world that being gay was not a fetish or a kink. That gay people are just the same as straight, it's just that their sexual partner was the same sex as them.

Absolutely and I'm sure the old school transsexuals aren't thrilled about it either. I'd never accept they have changed from man to woman but they aren't really fetishists. Those who are actually allies to women like Miranda, Debbie, Kristina, Leanne and lots of others. Fetishes are something for behind closed doors, not to be "celebrated".

Our rights have come a long way but the more homosexuality is associated with fetishes the more likely it is we (LGB, and T) will come under attack again.

This is sadly already happening in the US where the percentage of 18-34 year olds comfortable around LGBAlphabetsoup people has dropped to just 45%.

And I'm pretty damn sure that wouldn't be the case had the acronym remained just LGB.

And you're thinking is quite correct because the biggest drop in acceptance was found in the women of that age group.

And yet, throughout the past few decades, women have consistently been more supportive of LGB and T people than men.

As a sex we are socialised, after all, to be more empathetic towards those we perceive as vulnerable and disadvantaged. Which continues to be the case for many LGBT people in the US.

Our socialization hasn't changed in that regard. The reason why the drop is so huge among women therefore most likely lies in the aggressive onslaught on women's rights and the accompanying vilification of women's rights campaigners by the LGBT community in aid of transgender ideology and legislation.

Marmozet they may not be "hurting anyone" but it is a public event. Some 16 years ago, I went with my husband and sons to a family holiday village. With no mention, one of the entertainment songs were a group of women in torn school uniform dancing provocatively to a song, my then 6 year old turned to me, and asked "mummy, why are those ladies wearing school uniform" it was massively uncomfortable, and to be honest I was at a loss for words at being put on the spot, and completely unprepared. I felt the sexualisation, was inappropriate, whilst you may agree, given the setting, I don't think it is appropriate in any public space for displays of sexual fetish, where children may be part of the public, is unacceptable. Fine as a private affair, published in appropriate adult forums/publications, but not the general public.
Would welcome your view on this?

If we are going on the basis that this photo is showing 3 men indulging in their 'kink,' then what is that please?

If it's the one where individuals like to be treated like a baby, where is the sexualisation?

Dear god for all we know this could have been as a result of a dare or a stag do.

A photo can tell a thousand different stories.

If it's the one where individuals like to be treated like a baby, where is the sexualisation?

Because they get off on it sexually. Duh

I'm utterly revolted by that photo but I can see it being excused as the men just 'joining in with the fun by dressing in fancy dress' - nothing wrong there, no sireee - until you become aware of the whole adult baby scene, which gladly/sadly (not sure which really as sometimes ignorance is bliss) most people are not.

They don't seek out children as sexual partners.

Yes it is odd and not my cup of tea but again they aren't hurting anyone.

they aren't hurting anyone

not according to the NSPCC who say that we should not tolerate adults role playing as children

in my opinion this normalises the view that childhood is something appropriate to be part of people's sexual activities. It's really not OK.

www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/sick-pervert-abused-10-year-15060652

David Challenor dressed up as a young girl called Lucy and raped and tortured a 10 year old girl in his attic.

"Challenor had "various sexual fetishes and fantasies" including dressing up as a small girl himself in onesies and adult-sized baby dresses and nappies".

But no, it's not sexual.

And they never hurt anyone.

If it's the one where individuals like to be treated like a baby, where is the sexualisation?

If it isn’t sexual, what’s it doing at Pride?

If it is sexual, what’s it doing at Pride?

What the fuck does dressing up like a baby girl have to do with Pride?

Whatever it is, it has no place at Pride. Unless Pride really is now purely about sexual fetishes?
If that is what Pride is now then they should remove any link to LGBT.
Homosexuality is not a kink or a fetish and we are in dangerous territory regards LGBT rights if this continues.

And where are all the 50 year old women who like to dress up as babies?

How come it is only ever blokes who do it?

If it really were a harmless dressing-up hobby, then you'd expect women to participate in equal numbers.

And how come these blokes don't want to dress up as older people? How come it is only babies and young children that they want to pretend to be?

That pro-paedophile website that was around a couple of weeks ago is full of the nappy/baby/toddler stuff. Calls it "age play".

And where are all the 50 year old women who like to dress up as babies?

And how come its mainly female babies that they sexualize and fetishise? I'm remembering that vile stephonknee person, who actually involved real kids in their fetish by being their "playmate". But it's all innocent and harmless right

Funny that fromeden 🤔

Not sure about the men dressed as little girls thing or how it fits with Pride.

But where the hell are the pictures of women????

Someone needs to start a lesbian pride.

I remember as a young child, maybe age 6 or 7, feeling very uncomfortable around adult men's sexual behaviour in public, and I'm sure younger girls do now. How do you know they are not harming anyone? There's a whole range of child-related sexual abuse and pressure to normalise "minor attracted persons". I'd be surprised if there is no cross over between adult babies, images of child sexual assault and actual child assualt, I think it's extremely naive to think they are not harming anyway given what we know about the scale of these crimes.

And where are all the 50 year old women who like to dress up as babies?

Sexual fetishes occur almost exclusively in men, and men who have one sexual fetish usually have several. Men with AGP are likely to have other sexual interests as well as specific AGP interests, so a man who gets aroused by the idea of himself as a woman may be even more aroused by the idea of himself as a little girl.

David Challenor, mentioned upthread, liked to dress as a little girl and to torture real little girls. He also went by the nickname Baloo, the name of the bear in the Jungle Book which suggests he may be a furry, like his child, Aimee Challenor.

I went on my first Gay Liberation (that's what it was called in the 70s) demo at 14. The whole drive of the movement was to demolish the idea of homosexual people being "dirty" and perverted. It was all about the freedom to love who you loved, do so openly and be accepted for that.

Pride now seems to be all about the T and the kink. If kink and MAPs become the public face of Pride the acceptance LGB people worked so hard to gain could be dented, even jeopardised. And the nations with repressive laws against LGB people can point to some of the displays at Pride as proof that they are right to ostracise and prosecute such "degenerates".

All the choosy choiceys here should have a good read of this study, elaborating on the connection between male paraphilias and sex offending:

fairplayforwomen.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/153.full_.pdf

Look. Either Pride is a family friendly event or it isn't.

If it is, any kink should be kept completely separate from the family friendly parts. And no age play at all should be allowed. It should never happen that kids are thinking they're at Disneyland while adult men are enacting their sexual identities.

If it isn't, it should be clearly advertised as 18+ and children should be barred from attending.

@Lumene
Nice sentiment but can never happen in the current climate without being overwhelmed by people who think they are lesbians.

"astonishing that grassroots LGBT groups could not participate in the main march because they couldn't afford the fees"

If the organisers had any sense they would have twinned their very rich corporate sponsors with a grassroots group who could be provided with the means to take part in the March, but I'm sure HSBC or British Airways is a far more important participant in Pride than a boring old community group.

Grayson Perry dresses up as a little girl for exactly the same reasons as the men in this photo, but he's though of as marvellous (he's not) even on FWR. The normalisation of fetishes and kink has been going on for a long time.

Part of the difficulty may lie in the fact that some people (in this case, my DH who saw parts of Pride on the way to and from his destination) don't understand what they are seeing.

The animal costumes - he thought that they were kids TV characters that he didn't recognise.

At a glance, men like the ones in the OP - he thought that they were Ugly Sisters/Panto Dames or similar. He didn't see the dummies, and, if he had, wouldn't have understood them. Nor would he have recognised the unicorn pattern on the fabric of the outfits etc.

Despite hearing me discuss the topics, DH is oblivious to Stefonknee, David Challenor etc.

I wonder how many of us can see exactly the same scene and have completely different interpretations.

arran, yes, just as with dog-whistle stuff, if you're not in the know it completely passes you by.

I have just clicked the link to the BBC report of London Pride that was posted earlier in this thread. The fetish photos appear to have been removed. Still very male biased though.