BBC on 11 year old trans skating competitor

[NeurotrashWarrior]

Transgender skater fighting to compete www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-48800080

What is going on at the bbc?

AIBU to think that this child should be allowed to compete as a girl? Transgender topic. http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3627152-AIBU-to-think-that-this-child-should-be-allowed-to-compete-as-a-girl-Transgender-topic

According to one poster on there, feminists are evil

It turned out that everyone is evil, if that's how you define evil...

Oops. I didn't see that post, but I'm assuming that "evil" means not admitting that men can be women....

I zoomed through that thread early this morning. Very heartened to see the ratio, massive majority are calm, kind posts saying they fully support this child to dress however they like, name themselves however they like, absolute acceptance to compete with the boys but no, they're a transgirl not a girl and they should not be in female categories for sport. And the attempt to liken it to Rosa Parks was very roundly called out.

I think not that long ago the ratio would have been quite different, it's very nice to see people not usual FWR posters who have no trouble seeing the issue and speaking up for girls. And the only argument really being put is that being trans is such a very hard life that the girls sort of owe their competition to the child as a sort of consolation prize.....which is thoroughly derogatory to every child in the situation!

The tide is definitely changing and has been slowly for a while now.
I feel so sad for these children.

I'm a bit blown away by the now 17 pages AIBU, and the fact that over 99% are against this.
I was under the impression the FWR was an outlier on this issue.
Which begs the question, how the hell have TRAs gained so much so quickly? Why are their voices so strident, why is this utter ideology being so meekly accepted in so many areas?
We are going to look back on this as a type of mass hysteria I think. I hope.

And yes, heartbreaking for the children.

This is so sad.

Who told that little boy he couldn’t be exactly that person - make up, dresses and all - and not need to change at all.

Someone on the AIBU thread linked to this article.
revistaladoa.com.br/2017/11/curitiba/casal-gay-adota-menina-transgenero-seus-dois-irmaos-em-curitiba/

It's in Portuguese, but google translate tells me that the child was adopted, along with two other children, by a gay couple.

From the slightly clunky translation:
"She began to behave definitively like a girl. She wore dresses, props, tried several times to pierce her ear to wear her sister's earring... At school, her biggest dream was to wear skirts and hair bows like the other girls...at home she spent hours in front of the mirror realizing her dream, carefully decorating her hair, her ear with her colorful earrings, and adjusting her skirt in uniform."

A child who likes to wear dresses, jewellery and long hair with bows in is a girl. Obviously.

I always loved this painting.

There was a time when I'd have gone along with the idea of loosening the clothing rules, I am now not so sure that is a solution.

I was very focused on wearing only "boy" clothes as a kid, I was convinced I was really a boy. Mostly I did, but there were times I wasn't given a choice, often to do with dressing up or uniforms, but sometimes it was cost related.

Which annoyed me, but in hindsight, I think it had the effect of de-emphasising the idea that clothing really made me who I am, or that somehow it was just essential that my clothes reflected the real me.
I find myself thinking now, when kids are so sure that they need to wear gender non-conforming clothes and adults try and go out of their way to accommodate it, if we are giving them the opposite impression by rushing to change things to fit them. Instead of it saying to them, this isn't an important thing so might as well wear what you like, they are getting the impression that it is very important that they wear things that express their inner desires or being, and if this might not contribute to the idea of some sort of essentialist gender identity.

28 pages of reasonable, calm, practical explanation by women of why this is a problem for women and girls, taking apart many of the key arguments -

and HQ just deleted the lot because the OP had a tantrum and made a few inappropriate posts. [anger]

We're not allowed to talk about this, are we? No matter how nicely or politely we try to do it.

even.

The other thread got deleted by MNHQ.
I am well marked.

I hope it's not completely in vain. I've come here for the first time to learn more.

Sorry.
'Narked'.

Two threads in site stuff pointing out this was a calm, well argued discussion that had only one person acting inappropriately, which was the OP.

Bonaly is a great example @nauticant .

There is now a thread in site stuff.
I lose respect for MNHQ in times like this. Makes me very sad.

I've been here 16 years, and occasionally I feel like this.

Bollocks I'd only got a few posts in. I had noticed a lot of the op's posts were deleted.

If that's why it's been deleted it's ridiculous.

I understand what you're saying goose, it's probably a bigger thing than just changing the rules in one instance or for one type of sport like that.

I knew growing up in the 70s 80s that I could wear either boys or girls clothes and indeed the majority were the actual same items. I'm sure there were social divisions and things I classes as for boys but I certainly remember knowing I could do either.

I have a vivid memory of being a child at school and playing in the home corner. A little boy used to play with us too. I remember vaguely that he was teased for this. One day he was crying in the playground after being picked on and told he couldn't play in the home corner.

He vehemently, out loud through his tears, wished he was a girl.

For me though I remember everything was a choice. I felt I had a freedom he didn't.

(I told him not to be so silly as then I couldn't kiss him and gave him a peck on the cheek which cheered him up.)

I think this is deeper than just an outfit for this child but still sex matters in sport and I feel they've been misled and as oldcrone says, are a victim too.

Is that why the AIBU thread got deleted? Because the OP lost their shit? I think there’s been a shift in moderation recently.

Hey Gpatz

Welcome to FWR, GPatz.
Shame thread got pulled, spotted it lunchtime and filed for this evening, meh.