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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

722 replies

Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 10:42

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

OP posts:
placemats · 27/06/2019 15:00

I was denied an abortion in the UK (Cheshire) by my local doctor (male). I went through BPAS and had it done there. This was in 1997. I can barely believe that 22 years later you OP are going through the same thing. I wanted my abortion because I was going to miscarry, having done it twice before, I needed to never spend time in a hospital due to miscarriage again. I also had two small children then. I went on to have a successful third pregnancy.

Women have abortions because they are human beings with a brain and can work things out for themselves. I'm not religious but for the love of goodness, why do doctors do this shit? It's as if they, and they alone, have the power, not the patient.

I wish you well OP. xx

And if you get sepsis, which I hope you don't, sue the bastards.

DobbyTheHouseElk · 27/06/2019 15:01

Barnstaple hospital is a really bad hospital. It failed it’s OFSTED for maternity and other depts.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/06/2019 15:02

I’m all for a woman’s right to access abortions, but that is also contingent on having the medical professionals on hand willing to perform the procedure. If there aren’t enough of them I’m not sure how to go about conjuring them up from the ether

I can only speak from my own experience here, but years of recruiting in the field suggest that these "objections" could dry up pretty fast, were the exemption for religious views to be removed. It's very easy to adopt these positions on someone else's dollar, but it's surprising how an effect on employability can concentrate the mind

I fully realise this is a fairly radical concept to raise, but then the continuing compromising of womens' health is radical too ... especially when we remember that religion is a choice

FlapsMagazine · 27/06/2019 15:06

Since this whole saga I’ve been thinking a lot about women in NI. It’s just awful to go through this, I can’t imagine having to travel far from home to even access care, if a woman from NI was in my situation they would then have to travel back to the U.K. for surgical management presumably or wait it out until they become infected and it’s classes as life threatening?

Thank you Tiny, to think that despite what you're going through you're thinking of others is beautiful, as is the amazing response from the women here.

I attempted to access abortion services in NI about 15 years ago, it was appallingly handled. I miscarried before the date, but had I had to travel it would have been devasting for me as I was suffering with a load of mental health issues at the time. I friend of mine from the Republic did travel and like you, suffered post op complications. The way she was treated by Irish health care professionals afterwards was truly disgusting.

I really hope you get the medical and legal help you deserve.

Goosefoot · 27/06/2019 15:06

There is no room for religion in medicine.

That doesn't really make sense. All views on when a human life becomes a person, when that begins or ends, etc, are essentially about a belief system, including the idea that it happens at birth. There isn't a scientific answer to a question like that for anyone as much as people might like to think so. The principle affects an ever-widening set of technological possibilities as well which is worth thinking about.

Cismyfatarse1 · 27/06/2019 15:11

I think you should be required to take part in all medical treatments as a Dr. If you are so anti-abortion then become a men's health expert - deal with willies and bums or become a brain surgeon.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 27/06/2019 15:12

A friend of mine was in this position. Fortunately the doctor involved was excellent (though rushed off his feet), and the termination was concluded by giving her more termination drugs. It was pretty awful all round.

Then when she went for a scan to see if she was all clear (obviously important to avoid sepsis) the radiographer refused to scan her on religious grounds.

I posted this a couple of weeks ago. I don’t think I’ve ever been so angry.

Bourdic · 27/06/2019 15:13

Ask to see the hospital chaplain quickly - not the RC obvs and get your dh to go round to the PALS office and demand s/he comes to your bedside. I’m so sorry and angry. Also your dh could try and get to the CEO’s office and see his/ her PA. He could say you’re prepared to call the local press to your bedside ( true or not).

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/06/2019 15:14

There is no room for religion in medicine

Like the PP, I wouldn't quite say that; there are endless specialities where the deeply committed can enjoy a career with their religion remaining just what it should be - a personal set of views which need have no impact on anyone else

Obs and Gynae may, however, not be one of them

ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 27/06/2019 15:14

Years ago I had a mmc. I was treated horribly at a hospital purely because a nurse thought I was there for an abortion. I ended up taking the go home, wait and see option. I ended up haemorrhaging and nearly dying; I could have left two young children without a mother.
I hope you’re ok OP Flowers x

Troels · 27/06/2019 15:15

Any doctor or nurse who refuses to assist in or perform an abortion should not be working in Obstetrics and Gynaecology at all. It's part and parcel of the department.
I'd be complaining loundly about this.

Troels · 27/06/2019 15:16

*loudly.

Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 15:16

Treatment has gone from bad to worse. They are saying I can go, but have no guarantee that I have a place booked for tomorrow. I’ve asked the consultant if she is happy to send me home for 24 (or more) considering risk of infection and she maintains that there is no risk as I’ve not passed the foetus. I know this to be complete rubbish. The ward manager is On the defensive and is now saying the reason that I didn’t have the surgery is because they were busy with other emergencies. I also know this is untrue (because the consultant who was unwilling to do it did at least explain to my face that she wouldn’t do it on religious grounds and the other consultant wouldn’t either) and she covering herself and thinking she can lie to my face. This hospital is despicable. My local say they will not look at surgical management until 2 weeks post abortion, so I can’t go there either, which the ward manager here has also thrown in as an excuse. I think she might be an objector too.

OP posts:
Bourdic · 27/06/2019 15:17

That radiographer needs reporting to the regulator - refusal in that cirscumstance is not permitted. Bastard

Yukka · 27/06/2019 15:17

from previous PP's though the issue is less pro life and pro choice and back to the religious stance of the DR's. They will be christian or catholic where its against religious beliefs to terminate pregnancy. In the same way its against belief's to have IVF and create multiple possible lives that get thrown away if not used.

Its been this way for years, i recall in my late teens one of the GP's wouldn't give me a repeat prescription for the pill due to him being catholic, so I had to book another appointment with someone else.
I'm also catholic (non practicising/forever asking for forgiveness)) so surely the religious issue was in my choice to take the pill,not his choice to prescribe it.

Same here. the DR's aren't making the decision that goes against the religion, especially when significant harm has occurred tho the embryo already (if the original Dr's were anywhere near competent in round 1). it is retained pregnancy products that put the mother's health and wellbeing at risk.

I understand catholic DR's refusing to do the first operation, but not the second. That doesn't bide with anything I've been taught my entire life in the catholic world.

What would the NHS do, if all the Muslim staff said they couldn't work physically in the premises because most of the foods served in the canteen and to the patients aren't Halal . They're not made to eat it, but don't want other people to eat it either.

And why don't the catholic/christian Dr's refuse to treat murders - because that's against their religion too. Why are they not allowed to refuse to treat gay people? Why are they not allowed to treat someone who's had an affair? Why are they being allowed to choose?

It is selective discrimination based on personal preferences which goes against the whole GMC guidelines But then the whole religion is discriminatory.

Hope everything is going ok OP, and hope you get proper treatment tomorrow.

placemats · 27/06/2019 15:20

It is your legal right to have an abortion. Fucking hell.

Ring the police!

TheABC · 27/06/2019 15:21

Ask for names, times, everything. Document everything.
If it's Barnstaple, they are known locally for being a shit hospital.
I am so angry for you.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 27/06/2019 15:22

If they were busy with emergencies why were you told by a doctor that she wasn’t judging you?

That neither here nor there if you weren’t discussing her objections.

TheABC · 27/06/2019 15:23

@placemats
It might be the OP's legal right, but I can't see the police doing anything. What she needs is legal representation and public shaming of the hospital.

Yukka · 27/06/2019 15:23

can you just refuse to leave. Insist the medical director comes to see you and explains what is supposed to happen next?

medical management or otherwise they are completing ignoring the impact to your wellbeing mentally and emotionally.

have they even offered pain relief for you to take home?

Bourdic · 27/06/2019 15:24

theABC was just about to post that -make sure that they see you writing it all down. Photograph your notes at end of bed ( surreptitiously)

onalongsabbatical · 27/06/2019 15:25

I'm incandescent with rage for you Tinyteatime.
Please take good care of yourself. I'll be thinking of you. Flowers
How dare they. I feel so fucking impotent against this stuff.

Tinyteatime · 27/06/2019 15:26

The ward manager is trying to lie to cover her ass. The fact remains that they are sending away a women with a recent history of sepsis through womb infection with a partially completed abortion, who has been bleeding or over a week, with no guarantee of treatment tomorrow. I have asked for it in writing that the consultant is happy to discharge me and that there is no risk of infection. I’ve also asked that the other consultant give their opinion, although I don’t hold out much hope of getting a second opinion.

OP posts:
SenselessUbiquity · 27/06/2019 15:28

Tiny, you're an inspiration. Hang in there.
I'm furious for you. Hope your baby is ok and you will get to see him / her soon.

BoreOfWhabylon · 27/06/2019 15:29

This is shocking.