I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

[Tinyteatime]

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

OP, definitely seek legal advice and name and shame. Your name can be kept anonymous in press reports etc. They are putting you at serious risk and are being medically negligent due to their own incompetence in not making sure that there are doctors who can deal with the procedure.

I can quite well imagine doctors could well be pro-choice politically but would be uncomfortable with performing the procedure themselves.

I can too. But I also think those doctors have no place working in an area of medicine which performs the procedures. In this instance I think an individual's right to care trumps a doctor's moral or religious beliefs and it is therefore reasonable to discriminate against hiring them on those grounds.

I fully accept that an individual may have beliefs that leave them unable to perform an abortion, but considering the vast array of other areas in which they can practice, to consciously choose to work in this area and take a role that may have been wanted by someone without a moral or religious objection, thus preventing (or at the very least delaying) a woman's treatment, is not the action of someone dedicated to proper patient care.

Op this is outrageous. I wish I had some advice for you but can only echo other posters in saying this absolutely merits complaints being taken to the highest possible level. for you.

OP, have BPAS been able to help as suggested by someone upthread?

Absolutely shocking, just posting really to keep it current.

@Tinyteatime have you spoken to the poster who had a contact at BPAS waiting to speak with you? I think it's worth doing that they will be able to give you a device and potentially advocate on your behalf.

I'm so, so sorry this is happening to you. I had my own experience of conscientious objectors and abortion when I was only 16, and it damaged me irreparably. I hope you can get this sorted soon.

Oh for goodness sake. I think it's worth doing as they will be able to give you advice

'scuse my fat fingers

Why would a Dr do gynae if they hold those views. Disgusting treatment op, I feel for you.

MoleSmokes

@Tinyteatime they are endangering your life. You can contact Sepsis UK before 4:00pm
sepsistrust.org/support-enquiry/

Or tweet @sepsisuk**

worth you doing?

Sorry, just here in shocked empathy with you, OP. I do hope that it all turns out right for you all, and quickly.
(I thought at first you must be in NI before you said you were in England. This is anti-women prejudice, purely and simply. Flaming religious patriarchy.)

I wonder what would have happened had OP not mentioned the TOP at all, just the bleeding.

The ward manager is trying to lie to cover her ass

IME they very often do; a clear medical error killed my FIL, and even the profuse spoken apologies at the time were denied come the inquest (too bad for them that we'd noted exactly what was said and by who)

Awful as your situation is, in reality nothing will happen because of women chatting on a forum; priority's given to whatever shouts loudest, and right now that's religion. Instead, it'll take co-ordinated public pressure to bring about change, along with some difficult debate around the discrimination laws relating to employment

@tinyteatime I am so sorry you are you g through this. I can't offer much advice but would like to send you a big unmumsnetty hug and

I wonder if you could record what they are saying on your phone, either covertly or even overtly, so you can "prove" what was said.

Wishing you the best of luck xx

Yes BPAS are helping. Many thanks to the poster who contacted them. Sepsis U.K. isn’t a bad shout. I think the doctor is typing me a letter to say they are happy with the situation. If this ends up in some sort of investigation (which is sincerely hope it doesn’t) I don’t want those consultants having no paper trail that they were happy to turn me away. I’m hoping that I won’t get an infection in the next 24 hours and it doesn’t t lead to something more serious.

If you are able to, you need to ask to see your discharge notes, to see if your experience matches what is written there and then use your phone camera to keep a record of it so that they can't deny it or lose the notes later (I write this from having read other threads on MN about poor treatment in hospitals).

Will the letter include the reason the didn’t do anything, the religious objections?

OP, I am so, so sorry for what you're going through. I'm absolutely livid on your behalf.

Sending all the love and support I can through the internet. I hope this is over for you very soon, and I hope you get some accountability for this despicable, degrading treatment.

Hi OP,

I previously had an unwanted pregnancy as a result of failed depo, then the morning after pill failed, I had a medical termination through a local BPAS clinic, which also failed despite having a huge amount of pain, very heavy bleeding, enormous clots and being certain that a pregnancy couldn’t have survived all of that. It was around 4-6 weeks later (can’t quite remember) when I randomly vomited one morning that then penny dropped, I did a test and found I was still pregnant. I got back in touch with BPAS who got in back in pretty quickly, scanned me and found that there was still a fetal heart beat, they offered to see me again and this time at a different clinic further away I was allowed to have a surgical termination under general anaesthetic.

I feel for you very much because that was an extremely traumatic time for me, but the purpose of my post was to say get in touch with BPAS if you can! I’m sure they can help.

I'm a HCP and patients do ring the police. It's taken seriously. Patients are vulnerable.

I don’t know. I suspect it’s a rather generic discharge letter, the junior doctor is writing it and the consultant seems to have scarpered. The truth is that I need to get home to my baby ASAP, he is now refusing a bottle and in the heat I’m worried about him. they have taken so long to sort out an alternative that I don’t have the ability to fight anymore for a proper paper trail.

They are correct- your risk of infection/ sepsis is low because the fetus is intact.

The fact that you have had a womb infection before makes no difference.

I wonder what would have happened had OP not mentioned the TOP at all, just the bleeding.

I suspect she would have been checked for anything urgent (ectopic pregnancy, signs of sepsis, or signs of impending shock), and then either reassured her pregnancy is ok just now, but still may or may not miscarry, if she was continuing, or asked to book in with the TOP service if she wasn't.

So actually, pretty much the same care.

OP, I'm probably being thick, but I can't work out why you'd necessarily be at a higher risk than any other woman having a threatened miscarriage?

I can't see how your treatment is different to any other woman having a threatened miscarriage? TOPs are done by the TOP service, and you can be seen by them tomorrow. If you're not in shock, and you're not septic, why demand it now?

Is this about doctors not being willing, or you being in an emergency bed, and an failed TOP is not an emergency? If the bleeding's settled, and your obs are ok, I get why they may not be worried about you waiting until you can go back to the service which treated you originally.

Are you ill? Or pregnant when you don't want to be?

I realise this is an emotive topic, but I'm fairly confident that in the UK, if you were haemorrhaging acutely, or septic, you'd get a STOP immediately, there will be someone on call. I suspect you're quite stable?

Nothing to add except support and sympathy and tbh utter horror.

Will the letter include the reason the didn’t do anything, the religious objections?

I'll be utterly amazed if it does ... why would they write anything which might result in unwelcome questions, when as things stand they can simply claim OP "misunderstood" the spoken word?

Thinking of you and fucking furious that the medical professionals are not doing their job

I’m not very different from someone having a threatened miscarriage I suppose. I’m stable now. I came into a&e with very heavy bleeding, at one pint my blood pressure was low, so had I bled all through the night then I would probably be treated as emergency. The bleeding slowed after I passed some very large clots. They still told me that the gyne would do a d&c today because it’s been nearly a week since the failed abortion and there was risk of infection. I wouldn’t have presumed I’d have surgery today if they hadn’t told me so. The gynes on duty today are both objectors, so they won’t perform the op and are referring me back to another department. I’m not demanding anything now, they’ve kept me in a day and night away from my baby with the promise of surgery (they had me nil by mouth since 12 pm initially) then they changed it to 6am, so I wonder if the decision to stall was actually made last night. I’m only basing all this on what the hospital told me, until they saw a possible flicker of a heartbeat (which he was even unsure of) when everything changed.