I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

[Tinyteatime]

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

This is ridiculous. A doctor can't manage miscarriages properly either if they wont undertake these types of procedures.

Honestly I just feel that you shouldn't be working in Obs / Gyn if you have a general objection to abortion. It is too restrictive and likely to impact your patient's care.

I think any doctor should be able refuse to carry out a procedure they consider to be unethical as a kind of final back up against human rights abuses.

However they shouldn't be able to take a job in a medical area which routinely requires procedures they consider unethical. That's bonkers. It's like a Jehovah's Witness getting work as a Haematologist.

OP, can your husband advocate for you? I am very sorry for your situation. I really hope it gets sorted soon.

I’m happy for BPAS to post on this thread.

Commenting just to keep this on the front page.

I'm sorry you are going through this @Tinyteatime

Nothing to add, OP, but I hope you get back to your baby soon.

moreismore I thought they didn't have to take the hipocratic oath anymore?

I’ve also been told that nurses have the right to not care for me if they object, how do we have a system in place in our nhs that is happy to admit a woman to a ward but not give her any care, for a procedure that is legal in the U.K.

Is there any other area of medicine, where this is allowed? What about a terrorist who has killed numerous people(Westminster attack)- could medics have completely refused to treat him, or is this shit just reserved for women?!

That’s awful.

Sorry I haven’t read the replies. All hospitals should have a breast feeding coordinator. Ask to speak to her to see if you can arrange for your baby to stay with you.

Yep Lizziesiddal My response was that it was sex discrimination as I was being denied care based on my sex. Response was ‘no not really’. Well this wouldn’t happen to a man would it?

@Tinyteatime I really feel for you what an awful situation. It’s terrible that this is even allowed.
I know you have lots you are doing, and I am glad your DP is there. Could you email/tweet your own MP, explain simply your situation and ask them urgently to contact the MP in the area you are in for a response?

Given the risk of infection, you are wise to stay put and get the procedure done BUT it’s not acceptable and needs to be prioritised.

This is outrageous.

OP I do hope you are feeling okay and you can get back to your children soon. I'm honestly flabbergasted that this can happen in the UK in 2019!

I'm so sorry that this is happening to you. Having to fight for basic healthcare in the U.K. in 2019 is an outrage.

I can't offer any practical advice but I really hope this is resolved soon.

I would also get yourself up and about, if you're going to start bleeding again you want to do it in the hospital not when you're half way home.

Tiny It is indeed sexual discrimination.

Regan really? I didn’t know that.
tinytea just to say you are being very strong and doing a great job at sticking up for yourself. I hope you can as a minimum get your baby with you tonight as I couldn’t stand being separated from my bf daughter for even one night. You are being very strong so huge well done to you.

I'm so sorry and so angered for you. If you're in Barnstaple I can bring anything you may need to you. Wish I could help the actual situation tho! I don't know how to direct message on here but please do say if there's anything I can help with or sort accommodation etc.

I really can’t reconcile the personal belief aspect. My personal beliefs may mean that I don’t want to treat someone who has shot their wife and kids then turned the gun on themselves but is still alive or a mass murderer who has been attacked by other inmates in prison. My personal beliefs may mean that I don’t believe a gunman should be given priority over the policeman they shot if their status is deemed a higher clinical priority even though both are critical. All true scenario’s. My personal beliefs may mean that I don’t believe they deserve medical assistance and I don’t particularly care if they lay there and die a painful death. However, the Oath that you take must override your personal beliefs and you have to push your personal beliefs aside completely and treat them to the best of your ability and without bias. I really struggle to see how OP’s situation is any different.

I wish I could do something to help you Tinyteatime. I think this is utterly outrageous and despicable. I hope at least they get you moved to a private room with your dh and baby asap.
Is dh in any state to do anything (I understand he'll be looking after the baby AND worrying about you)?
Really they should all be fucking struck off.

How that doctor could ... think that it was appropriate to say she wasn't judging you is a complete mystery to me. Likewise telling you you aren't at increased risk of infection when ... another doctor has confirmed it!!

I believe it's known as Cover Your Arse; the medic will want something of her own on file, to avoid being scrutinised too closely should anything go wrong

I asked about my right to healthcare and she didn’t really have an answer

No, I don't expect she would. I'm desperately sorry you're in this awful situation at all, but what you've got there is two competing "priorities" - and religion wins because it can shout louder than one individual in need

How far are personal beliefs allowed to go? What if I don't believe that God wants people to have amputations. Or that people should be allowed to have IVF? What if I object to treating men?

Do the job. Or get another job.

OP - this is bloody shocking. Really, really shocking.

Token pro life bod here.

I emphatically think you should make a formal complaint, this is utterly outrageous. Without a doubt this is sex discrimination. Personally, I agree with conscience opt-outs but I also think that they mean measures must be put in place to ensure that adequate, legal care is still available to all.

Really sorry you're going through this OP.

This is horrifying. I'm so sorry OP.

Doctors don't take the Hippocratic Oath, not for at least the past 70 years. It's a myth. I don't think they ever have done so in the UK but I'm too idle to check.

The issue of medical staff being able to refuse to take part in abortions on the grounds of religion is a thorny one. I can quite understand that holding anti abortion views shouldn't bar you from a career in healthcare but I find myself very suspicious of anyone with such views who goes on to specialise in Obs/Gynae. It strongly suggests an agenda.

But to have no one on duty who is both qualified and willing to provide abortion care is just not good enough. That's down to hospital management.

It's not even as if they have the excuse of it being a Sunday. No. It's Thursday, FFS.

That is outrageous. Where the hell is this regressive backwater you’re in? I would LOUDLY threaten legal action and tell them that you will call a solicitor and the press unless they get their arses in gear.

I also think that there should be no option to refuse to perform certain procedures due to religious beliefs. Just NO. They should be a legal right and if you don’t feel able to perform them, don’t be a doctor. As is demonstrated here, religious objections leave patients at risk.

God, this sort of shit makes me angry. We wouldn’t entertain a doctor refusing to give life saving treatment because s/he believe that it is only God who gives and takes life. But where it’s women’s health, it’s fine apparently. I wonder how the world would react if a man was denied a blood transfusion because the surgeon was a Jehovas Witness and no other doctors were available so the patient died.

moreismore many do swear an oath of some sort, apparently, but it varies by medical school. And the original hipocratic oath is considered to be anti abortion, though this may not actually have been the author's intent as abortion was legal when it was written.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7654432.stm

Do you think you'd be OK to travel home and go to the hospital there, OP? I think I would in your situation. If not, don't they have a legal obligation to refer you to the nearest facility that will carry out the procedure?

thankyou everyone for your comments. They have tried to add me to the emergency list for later today, but it’s very unlikely I will be seen so I’m having to have it done tomorrow. I think I might try and get discharged so I can be with baby as they can’t seem to guarantee a side ward where he can stay. I will come back in as an elective and hope I don’t have heavy bleeding again overnight. I think this is my best chance of management, I don’t want to have to back on a waiting list at my local hospital. It just make me so angry that there are 2 consultants here right now that could sort me out with a 10 min procedure but they won’t. It sounds like this hospital has more gynaecologists who object than not, which I really think is a major problem as they must see women all the time in this situation. I wonder how many others have had treatment delayed.

This is just so wrong OP and I can't believe the nurses are allowed to refuse to care for you. Is this just the case in abortions or any medical issue like drug/alcohol abuse/ self harm.
I hope someone who can help picks up on this thread.

OP I'm so sorry to read this. I have nothing useful to say, but posting to keep it on the front page if we possibly can. I do think MNHQ could move it to AIBU?