I’ve just been denied medical management of a failed abortion

[Tinyteatime]

I had a medical termination last Saturday, 7 weeks pregnant after my coil failed. Thought it had passed relatively easily so came away on a short holiday with my family luckily only 1.5 hours away from home. Started heavy bleeding and bad cramps yesterday, came to a&e as as advised by the BPAS clinic as I was flooding a pad and blood leaking through my trousers. Passed some very large clots. Internal scan reveals what they think is a foetal heart beat still in there. I’ve been in hospital one night and they said they would do the surgery on me this morning. I’ve just been told that all the doctors available won’t perform the procedure due to religion. This in the U.K. in 2019, in a hospital that offers abortion services. They’ve said I can stay another night and have it tomorrow, I have a breastfed baby that I’ve already been away from for one night, I’m in pain, bleeding and I’ve already had sepsis last year from a womb infection whilst giving birth so I’ve raised infection risk as a concern. I feel so angry about this. Would they deny women treatment for miscarriage? Or is it because there may still be a foetal heartbeat present? Is it simply because I’ve chosen to end the pregnancy myself? How in an nhs hospital can women be denied healthcare like this?

Where is this?

Can you ring your hospital and tell them What's wrong and you are on your way.

it's truly shocking what you are going through

You aren’t an emergency so yes the doctors are within their rights to object. It sounds awful on paper but forcing a doctor to perform an abortion when they don’t agree with them could open up the risk of deliberate harm or doctors pretending to abort but then not doing it (this happens a lot in the middle east and the muslim countries of south east asia. Just don’t leave the hospital until a doctor who will do it sees you.

Oh, and I think it would be a good idea to post this in AIBU for traffic. The more the story is spread the better. Women need to know this is possible in the UK in 2019 and the hospital are more likely to feel under pressure if there's a big thread about it. Your DM could show it to a member of staff.

Perhaps say which county/region you're in, even if you don't provide the name of the hospital.

From twitter:
Abortion conscience rights are conditional on referral to a willing doctor. Solicitors at Centre for Women's Justice might suggest an appropriate solicitor: 020 7092 1807 OR link here to lawyers specialising in healthcare aspects of administrative law: t.co/DswQUVBtUJ

That's awful. I can't believe that's allowed in this country.
I hope something gets sorted asap and that you're not away from your family for much longer.

This is appalling.

Why should medical staff be able to determine who they treat?!

Yes, let’s definitely wait for sepsis to set in before the doctor has to act.

This is absolutely outrageous. How any doctor can be so cavalier about the enormous risk of infection is beyond me. PALS are normally pretty useless, I’d go higher if you can. Ward manager? I’m appalled you’ve been left like this

If you got up and walked around I’m fairly sure you’d start to gush blood. How ridiculous that you have been advised to go elsewhere, however throwaway the remark might have been! Everything written down and as advised, get that disgusting excuse for a doctor to sign a statement saying she is refusing care.

I hope you get help soon

For once we could do with the Daily Fail picking this up to name and shame the hospital. So sorry that you are having to go through this absolute nightmare...

Tinyteatime
This thread has been linked on twitter - I had been sourcing help generally without linking to this thread specifically.
But others have now linked this thread.

BPAS have asked if they can offer assistance. I've asked if they can post on this thread.

This is disgusting.

I don't understand how someone could treat for instance a drug addict child sex offender who is there due to a self inflicted ailment but then refuse to treat a woman who I needs a termination. They wouldn't be allowed to refuse someone a blood transfusion due to their religious beliefs.

Surely if you train to heal then you either heal all or none, why is it ok to refuse to treat one person but then not be allowed to refuse someone else even though they may also test your (religious) beliefs?

I am rambling and not making much sense but I think the point is that doctors have to treat all sorts of people they would much rather not because that is the rules so why are those rules not there for this?

You aren’t an emergency so yes the doctors are within their rights to object. It sounds awful on paper but forcing a doctor to perform an abortion when they don’t agree with them could open up the risk of deliberate harm or doctors pretending to abort but then not doing it (this happens a lot in the middle east and the muslim countries of south east asia. Just don’t leave the hospital until a doctor who will do it sees you

I would agree if the o/p was in a country where TOP didn’t fit with laws or religion of the country.

I may also agree with you if it were a weekend, or in the middle of the night when only one or two on call dr’s are available.

It isn’t that they are dealing with emergencies, an o/p is at the back of the queue waiting for a free dr. It’s that the dr’s will not treat her due to their personal beliefs

However it’s midday, on a fucking Thursday, in the UK. The department should be staffed correctly to offer all gynae services in office hours.

The fact that a hospital dept hasn’t seen to have even one dr available suggests they need to at least look at their rota management. I have no idea whether it’s legal to ask about TOP ethics in interview, but it’s a gynae dept ffs. They should have procedures in place for referral to another dr or facility if they can’t provide appropriate care.

So angry for you OP, my initial reaction is to say if you can afford it (travel insurance?) get a lawyer to your bedside recording all decisions taken, names of doctors, and the fact one doctor claimed delaying will not cause greater infection risk, who can advocate for you.

Surely anyone who is unwilling to do this shouldn't be a gyneacologist? That's where the choice should come in, and if you have religious reasons not to do a pretty important potentially life saving part of the job, dont do that job. There are lots of other medical specialties. They should not be able to choose to put a women at greater risk (and by extension her bf baby) in an urgent care situation.

These people don't give a shiny shit about actual babiea - the lack of concern for the bf baby is absolutely vile. So clear that anti-abortion actually means anti-woman,

I am so sorry. This is disgraceful. No one should be allowed to work in ObGyn if they are not willing to perform the full range or procedures. If you don't want to perform terminations then fine but you can do that in another department.

I wouldn't be surprised if some Drs chose the specialism to restrict womens options by stealth .

That is appalling. But I am not surprised, sadly.

Honestly, I think it’s very simple. If you go into medicine and you object to performing a TOP, even in a complicated case like the OP’s, then you don’t go into gynae/you don’t accept an gynae rotation (in the case of junior doctors). Same applies to people considering a pharmacy career who won’t sell a woman the MAP.

Equally, I had issues with medical students insisting on single sex seminars citing religious grounds (this was around ten years ago - London medical school).

I am not comfortable with religion interfering with medicine at all.

I’m unsure on this. The hospital may v well perform terminations but probably through the gynae dept not via emergency admissions, so that may be one issue.

I would assume they see this as no different to a woman presenting to a and e miscarrying (although essentially that is your situation what has preceded it shouldn’t be an issue) so really they should be managing you as mc care ?
What are the hospitals options for that? They should be monitoring you for infection have they done that?

I'm absolutely shocked by this. I feel so sorry for you OP, you must be so frightened and angry.
Why be a doctor if you will actively choose not to help people?!

And yes you should be given a private room and your bf baby to join you

Just a word of caution on the social media thing.

This could blow up and the OP's real name could end up being published in mainstream media.

Can't help but being reminded of Riven's outing in the press after she posted on here. That blew up extremely quickly and Riven had no control over how that was reported.

It is up to the OP to decide if she wants to risk that or not. Of course people on here have good intentions and only want to help.

Hope you are okay, Tiny.

Yes so to clarify there are free gynaecologists on the ward here, they just won’t do the procedure, that’s poor staff management if you ask me. If I were classed as a medical emergency then I would be added to the emergency surgery list and it would be done. I came in as emergency but I’m no longer, they said it would be scheduled for this morning, but all the gynes this morning are objectors. My local hospital say they would only do surgical management 2 weeks past the initial medical abortion. Their advice was that it’s not unusual to see a FHB for a while after a medical and it can take two weeks to pass. So now I have the option of waiting here and having surgical tomorrow afternoon, or discharging and waiting it out. I’m verging towards waiting here to have it done as I’m so worried about infection.

I’ve also been told that nurses have the right to not care for me if they object, how do we have a system in place in our nhs that is happy to admit a woman to a ward but not give her any care, for a procedure that is legal in the U.K.

I'm furious on your behalf, OP. This is despicable.

@Tinyteatime you need to get the names of these doctors and put in a proper complaint as high as you can, they will be struck of they are putting their religion before their patients safety and care....

Awful.

The lady from PALS was sympathetic but the ward manager had a very ‘sick it up attitude’ everyone has the right to object. I asked about my right to healthcare and she didn’t really have an answer. I feel I have no help now which ever hospital I turn to. They have at least said they will try and get me in a room where baby and dh can stay.