Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Flip

1 2 3 4

Original poster

Girls and names for body parts - aibu?

79 replies

nightwakingquilt · 19/06/2019 22:49

Probably should be in AIBU but I wanted the opinions of the feminism crowd in particular...

We've always taught my 7 yo daughter the correct anatomical names for her body - vulva, vagina, etc. A few days ago, when DD was off to the loo at a party, I was reminding her privately to wipe carefully after a poo so that the skin on her bottom and vulva didn't get sore (she sometimes still doesn't wipe very well and then ends up with irritated skin). Thought nothing of it until a while later a mum who I'm normally quite friendly with came up to me and took issue with this, saying she had overheard me, and her daughter didn't know that word, and she was deeply shocked as she had never heard of anyone who used that word to a child and then (!) quite literally went on to compare it to child abuse. I was so taken aback that I didn't quite know what to say and am now terrified of her going about telling other mums I'm some sort of sex abuser! Also pretty offended at this, and at being told it's inappropriate to have "taught her that word". It seemed to be particularly the use of "vulva" that she objected to - she said even vagina would be better despite being literally incorrect (DD knows the difference between the two and though we do also refer to "bits" or "private parts" in general, I was very specifically referring to the vulva rather than the vagina in my comment).

But this is ridiculous, right? It's perfectly rational and normal to use the anatomically correct terms, even if it's still not run of the mill? I mean they've all had their first lot of PSHE and as far as I know were taught the correct anatomical terms at school.

My mum always used the euphemistic "bottom" and it was horrendously confusing - you basically had to work it out from context which bit she meant. I'm not keen on it being seen as essentially dirty and shameful, either, which "bottom" implies; nor on calling it something daft like "tuppence". I did some research on this - partly on MN! - when DD was about 2 and as far as I recall it was actually considered good safeguarding practice to use the correct terms (as well as empowering and good for reducing stigma about the female body). Has this become really weird in the last couple of years, or is other mum just a nut? Wondering if anyone has any good resources on why it's good to teach your child the correct terms, so I can send them to her to prove I'm not some child-abusing weirdo?

I thought things had become a bit better over the last few years or so about this but clearly I'm wrong. Is the female body really still considered so shameful and inappropriate that a 7 yo knowing that her vulva is called a vulva is so outrageous?

[As an aside on a completely other note, DD reported to me that Young Woke Male TA corrected her during their PSHE lesson when she said that females have uteruses. "He said that not all people with uteruses are females, mummy, wasn't that silly of him?" Was glad to hear this week that Young Woke Male TA is off to another school...]

OP posts:

Kokeshi123 · 20/06/2019 02:03

Getting the rage because someone uses vagina for the external area seems a bit extreme?

My daughter knows perfectly well that vagina and vulva are different, but we still use vagina as the catch-all term. In much the same way as, she knows that a "stomach ache" is actually located in the intestines not the actual stomach, but it's still OK to say "stomach ache" in casual parlance.

I started using vagina not vulva when she was a young child because vulva is not easy for a young child to say and still sound comprehensive. "Bur-bur" is not easy for a nursery worker etc. to understand....!

WarmthAndDepth · 20/06/2019 02:16

vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva vulva
Ffs, just had this convo in a staff meeting, highlighting the importance of differentiating between vulva vulva vulva vulva and vagina in SRE. Yes, safeguarding best practice. Just don't get this kind of coy crap with names of male body parts.

dreichuplands · 20/06/2019 02:21

Years of sitting through interviews trying to get dc's to use the correct terms to help move police interviews along made me determined to teach my dc the correct terms. They know them but use the word privates for day to day use.

RainbowMum11 · 20/06/2019 02:54

This is something that I've kind of struggled with in my life and as a mum of a DD.
Growing up, I really can't think or remember that we called 'it' anything - this was DM bringing up 2DDs who will normally use proper names for body parts.
I have never had a 'word' for my vulva - there was never a colloquial word we used for anything related to our private areas - I have friends who say foo-foo, Mary, tuppence, fanny and all sorts but we never had a term at all.
I hate frilly terms, and none of the above work at all, neither does front bottom, so I do struggle with a name to use for my DD as she grows up..

LassOfFyvie · 20/06/2019 03:04

Getting the rage because someone uses vagina for the external area seems a bit extreme?

This is such an "only in Mumsnet" thing.

Ffs, just had this convo in a staff meeting, highlighting the importance of differentiating between vulvavulva vulva vulvaand vagina in SRE. Yes, safeguarding best practice. Just don't get this kind of coy crap with names of male body parts

Years of sitting through interviews trying to get dc's to use the correct terms to help move police interviews along made me determined to teach my dc the correct terms

Is it really so difficult to ask a child if they were touched inside or not?

dreichuplands · 20/06/2019 03:23

lass you cannot ask anything considered leading. If dc start talking about frou frou's, tinkles or front bottoms for example this isn't clear enough to be accepted as evidence so you have to get a clearer description of the body part they mean by this, without giving suggestions, putting words into their mouth or leading them. It is of course doable but it is challenging enough that it stuck in mind and reinforced the positives of clear, unambiguous medical language.

LassOfFyvie · 20/06/2019 03:38

so that the skin on her bottom and vulva didn't get sore

If the OP is such a stickler for the precise biological term why use the vague term "bottom" ? Does she mean buttocks? anus?

I take your point re twee names, although I on threads on trans issues when posters are distinguishing between natal woman and trans women it is always "vaginas" or "vagina havers" , not vulva havers which are referred to. The current thread about lesbians refers to vaginas which rather suggest "vagina " is being used as a catch all term.

MaximusHeadroom · 20/06/2019 05:15

I really hate the fact that I use penis all the time with DS but struggle to use vulva with DD. I usually use fanny or vagina because they feel more comfortable. DD is only 5 so i am hoping I will get over it by the time she is older.

My DD also gets a sore vulva so I completely get where you are coming from. YADNBU.

And I worked with kids who were sexually abused years ago and it was common for abusers to use euphemisms or give body parts actual names to make it seem more like a game and more innocent for the victims. The clearer we are about what is what, the easier it is for a child to be clear about what should and shouldn't be touched. IYSWIM

PhoenixBuchanan · 20/06/2019 05:50

DD age 3 says vulva... I thought this was accepted now... bit surprised to see such debate about this on the feminist board and starting to feel like perhaps I've done her a disservice in using/teaching correct language! (we used the word vagina when I was a child, never had any mind of pet name)

MandalaYogaTapestry · 20/06/2019 06:42

Clearly the private conversation wasn't private enough if another mum and her child overheard the OP. Regardless of the used terms.

Eaudear · 20/06/2019 06:55

If the OP is such a stickler for the precise biological term why use the vague term "bottom" ? Does she mean buttocks? anus?

That's a good point actually. The OP insists on 'vulva' but uses it alongside 'bottom'?

OhHolyJesus · 20/06/2019 07:38

We use the words penis and vagina in this house, bizarre that the truth can be used as a comment in child abuse! Ignore her.

ScrimshawTheSecond · 20/06/2019 07:52

We've used the correct terms and always have done. The kids have accurate information about their bodies and functions, and it's just no big deal.

As far as I know, it's also seen as a protective against abuse.

Peachesandcream14 · 20/06/2019 08:30

I remember asking my DM what my 'bits' were called as a fairly young child, and she told me that 'girl parts don't have a name' my three year old uses vulva. I don't want her to feel the odd shame about her genitals that I did, and my school did not do detailed anatomical labelling at secondary level sex ed either, what I learnt I got from the internet and channel 4s sex education show, and I was nearing adulthood at that point.

Treaclesweet · 20/06/2019 08:34

As an aside on a completely other note, DD reported to me that Young Woke Male TA corrected her during their PSHE lesson when she said that females have uteruses. "He said that not all people with uteruses are females, mummy, wasn't that silly of him?"

Your 7 year old was doing female reproductive anatomy?!...

Juells · 20/06/2019 08:35

tee hee, I can't imagine asking a child to wipe their anus. It might be correct, but it's a bit .... dunno.

AshQ · 20/06/2019 08:39

My 7 year old had a lesson in school (Scottish primary) on the correct terms recently. I can’t understand why anyone would have a problem with it! Surely it makes sense for them to know.

diddlediddle · 20/06/2019 08:47

Anyone on this thread suggesting you have done anything wrong or even slightly inappropriate is a moron and part of the problem.

Teaching her the correct name for body parts is the right thing to do. Women have had to be ashamed of their bodies for far too long and it is part of the reason that sexual abuse goes unreported.

The other mum needs to look at her own issues. You weren't talking to her daughter and she needs to mind her own business.

redexpat · 20/06/2019 08:54

My sister is a police officer. She tells me that children who know the correct terms are more likely to report abuse should it happen.

There was a post on a similar thread from someone who worked in courts saying theyd seen trialsfall apart because adult women couldnt properly identify their own body parts.

Its not akin to abuse, it is safeguarding.

Juells · 20/06/2019 08:55

Teaching her the correct name for body parts is the right thing to do. Women have had to be ashamed of their bodies for far too long and it is part of the reason that sexual abuse goes unreported.

You can know the correct word for something, and still not be bothered using it. How many people would ask their children if they needed to urinate? Or talk about faeces?

I'd see it as being about intimacy. In a formal setting you'd use the correct words, but with those who are close to you, especially children, it's a lowering of barriers. Maybe I'm talking through my anus though...

deydododatdodontdeydo · 20/06/2019 08:58

Did you also tell her to wipe her anus correctly?
No, you said bottom, so did not use the correct anatomical term.
Because most of us don't in general, in every day speech.
However, that mum was out of order.

stillathing · 20/06/2019 09:10

Bottom and willy are understood to refer to anus and penis by almost everyone.

But as this thread demonstrates there is a wide variety of euphemism for vagina and vulva.

It is absolutely safeguarding best practice for your DD not only to know the correct word but to feel comfortable using it.

If she felt shame for saying it, how would she ever be able to use it to describe anything happening to her that also left her feeling shame?

Babdoc · 20/06/2019 09:11

I’m a doctor, so my DDs were given the correct terms from the start. It would never have occurred to me to use any of the hilarious and twee euphemisms I’ve seen on MN.
DD1 became the “go to” in her class for correct information on sex ed at high school.
She laughingly said she was hugely popular for a few weeks after explaining the location and role of the clitoris in masturbation- grateful girls kept coming up to high five her after their first orgasms the night before!
I think it’s important to be factual and unembarrassed when discussing anatomy, periods or sexual function. It means your DC can trust your information as accurate, and be able to confide in you when required. And as PPs have said, it means they can recognise and report abuse immediately.

spugzbunny · 20/06/2019 09:15

Can someone explain to me why Vulva is so important as a safe guarding issue? I use vagina and if I need to differentiate in my own life for any reason it would be inside of my vagina and the outside of my vagina. I will be doing the same with my daughter.

Genuine question.

butteryellow · 20/06/2019 09:20

My boys both know the correct terms (although I just had to teach the youngest 'Testicles' after he was asking about it all) - they both strongly prefer to use a colloquial name though - in fact the eldest (8) bashfully told me that some boys were talking at school about things they probably shouldn't and they were using a word he'd rather not say - he'd only say the first letter 'P' to which I was both relieved, and then loudly guessed 'PENIS' to his blushing face.

I have no idea where he's got this from - I've certainly used the correct terms for all the relevant bits on boys and girls, and yet, somehow, he won't say penis (I didn't venture as far as his feelings on Vulva or Vagina). It's not like we're a shy family, or they're otherwise bashful or unable to talk to me about things.

Flip

1 2 3 4