I'm being petty but this is still annoying

[LeslieKnope2020]

My husband and I are currently applying for a mortgage using a broker as first time buyers. It's going well, the full application has just gone in and we're very excited. But I'm having a bit of a bad day and this petty little thing just irrationally annoyed me.

My husband has been working away for three months so every single thing has been done by me. Every single email, phonecall and form to complete for the broker has been done by me and I have paid every fee. They have never ever had any contact with my husband.

This morning, I get an email from the solicitors that the broker recommended. The form has been partially filled in by them and who do you think got listed as top billing on the form? My husband. He is 'buyer 1' who's details have all been completed (address, post code, number, email address, DoB, occupation) using the brokers information and I'm 'buyer 2' with literally just my name on the form.

I know, it's petty. I'll hold my hands up and say yes, this is bottom of the barrel stuff. I know, I was in the Army for 6 years having to prove myself everyday simply because I own a vagina. I know there are bigger things to get annoyed about but what really grinds my gears is this tiny everyday sexism that people just either don't notice or brush off.

I have done 100% of this process so I certainly feel like I derserve to have my name as buyer one and to have all of my details on the form so when I first saw it, it was like a hand had reached out and given me a quick slap in the face. Fair enough if the broker didn't tell them they had only been dealing with me and it was just a coincidence my husband is named first with a completed details section. But to only write my name under buyer two and not even bothering to include my details as well?! I know they have my details, the broker sent them over with my husband's! Anyway, will I be wrong to continue my pettiness and scribble out my husband's name and put mine instead?

I don't often use a cheque-book these days, but every time i do it reminds me that we moved to Royal Bank of Scotland 30 years ago when I became a partner in a firm that banked with RBS. Even though we were only moving because of me, and I was earning more, DH's name had to go first on our account because that's where the man's name went on a joint account.

Not at all petty. This stuff matters because it's the ongoing, drip drip drip insidious every day sexism that is just so wearing. Definitely say something to your solicitors. Ridiculous behaviour.

No not being petty at all. I'm sure everyone can share a similar story of this type of prejudice. Especially in relation to financial matters.

As an aside Rickytickytembo love your username. One of my favourite childhood books, read it to absolute tatters.

Not petty, it's really annoying when things like that happen! I booked some flight tickets recently, everything done in my name with my contact details and email address to send the booking confirmation to. I put my husband as passenger 2.

Who was the email addressed to?! "Dear Mr X" and of course he was now passenger 1! It was a middle Eastern airline but still...

I had that when I bought my first house.
I did everything to do with it and when I filled out the form I put myself down as ‘buyer 1’.
When going through stuff with the solicitor he asked if we were brother and sister because my name was first.

Thanks DanaPhoenix! It's something that had stuck in my head from childhood. Though I just started reading the book to my kids and it's a bit dark! Very pleased that the first son did indeed survive (had totally forgotten how the story went and was concerned for a minute there).

Another RickyTickyTembo fan here.
Had to be my favourite book. I loved the illustrations.
I read it to my class sometimes.

Buying our first house together, solicitor an old friend of mine from uni. Knew I'd kept my name. Put documents as Mr & Mrs hisname. Was corrected, changed it to Mr hisname and Ms her name (aka Mrs hisname) 😡 sent them back again. He (or his staff) couldn't get their head around the fact I was never going to use hisname. I never did. It helped that we gave the dds my name.

Your first contact with the solicitors will set the tone. Your husband is away for three months and you are handling all of the admin right now so I would ring the solicitor and ask them, quite politely, to send you an amended form showing your details first as you will be the one dealing with all correspondence. You have no need to explain further. The solicitor will be as anxious as you to make sure the relationship is a professional one for the duration of the transaction (although they should have had the courtesy to check first) and it will not be the first time they have had to do this, so they will comply.

I've been married for 26 years. The house, insurances, all of our bank accounts, are held jointly and for every one, my name comes first. Not a single financial institution or solicitor has ever so much as blinked an eye at it. That's because they know that in this marriage, my husband is the Prime Minister and makes all the big decisions...and I'm the Chancellor of the Exchequer and I say whether we can afford them or not!

It seems petty but it’s not. The constant drip drip of being lesser.

I was solicitor then sahm for 6 years then set up on my own lots of local clients. Dh has the big job and is senior in his firm. We went to a local party and the elderly ladies there asked dh what he did or was he just “the solicitors husband”. I felt ridiculously

It’s not petty
Ask them why they did this.

It’s not petty
Ask them why they did this.

Yes, that's always interesting. Because there's no justifiable answer. Especially in this case, as they have dealt solely with you, OP.

Um...er. Will probs sum it up.

I suspect it's because many people, deep down, expect men to be a little bit insulted if they aren't listed ahead of their female partner but think women should be OK with it really because, well, they are second to their male partners, really, when it comes to money.
I'm sure this is why it's the "default". Although would men really complain more if it was reversed? I'm not sure they'd notice, having been the default human, the default #1 etc.

Ask them why, it is likely to be more persuasive than just complaining that they did it the wrong way this time.

It may be that there is a reason or policy such as always putting the higher earner first. It may be that the broker already had your DH as buyer 1 and they assumed this was correct or there could be an actual good reason for doing it, but it would be good to get them to examine their practice.

Op go on the man who has it all Facebook page. They reverse all these casual sexism’s. Crazy cat gentleman is one of my favourites of theirs

Is he older than you?

When we bought in the UK I was buyer 1 (also did everything, and was the higher earner then) for some reason my husband thought it was because I'm older, like being kids

If it's because he's male though that's astounding everyday sexism. I wonder if there is an objective logic based on earnings, age or alphabetical order, or whether it really is conscious or unconscious sexism - like the man's name always appearing first on correspondence from banks etc...

I'm sure this is why it's the "default"

Millenia of patriarchy and ongoing structural sexism.
It's not that long ago since a woman applying for a mortgage alone could be asked to provide a male guarantor.

This piece is a reminder of where we've come from so recently.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36662872

I was just, only just, after this era. It never occurred to me when I opened my bank account at Barclays before going to uni in 1979 and I was provided with a Barclaycard as a matter of course - it also functioned as their cheque guarantee card IIRC - that a few years earlier this would have been noteworthy.

Thanks for replying! Didn't realise I would have so many actually but then again, I'm sure we're all hacked off at experiencing this everyday sexism. It's like someone said earlier in the post, it really is like a drip drip drip of being made to feel lesser in some minute way everyday but then suddenly the sinks overflowing and you're thinking 'fuck this shit, this is not good!'. I'll try and answer some questions:

My husband is in the Army and is in a time zone 7 hours behind.
He earns about 6k more than me annually.
I am older than him by 6 months.
His name is before mine alphabetically but only just. Our names are very similar (think Bob and Bobby).

I completed the form today and did put myself as buyer one. They'd used my mobile number and email address anyway (I hadn't given them his because he would either be asleep or wouldn't actually have his phone on him in work so absolutely no point) so I just crossed out the DoB and NI number and put mine instead. Didnt need to cross his name out because his name is the first 6 letters of mine so just added the rest of my name in.

The broker and I have actually got quite friendly, she's really nice so perhaps I'll bring it up with her how she worded her initial email to them.

Hearing all of your examples is shocking! I'll be keeping an eye out for it now and I'll be ready to confront them. My husband and I are getting a joint account whem he's home (we never had the need to before, everything was very equally split and he happily took on all the bills/gave me his card/put money in my account without question when I was at home with the children). He'll be coming over to my account which I've had for 10+ years so I'll be interested to see who the letters get addressed to.

OP I knew being older than your husband wouldn’t make a difference. Personal experience. 6 weeks for me. Joint account can be handy especially if offset against your mortgage. Two wages to pay it off quicker. Joint credit cards is where it gets interesting. Looking at you Amex. 🧐

The solicitor who was handling my divorce continually called me by my H’s name, even though I’d given them proof I’d changed my name back and kept reminding them. That might have just been because they were useless though.

Also, every single letter was addressed to Dear Sirs. My, still not XH’s solicitor is female, they actually know her personally, still all correspondence was addressed to dear Sirs.

Something similar happened to me recently. I booked flights with easy jet for my family - with my name at the top. On same website booked a hire car again in my name. When I got my confirmation email from the car hire company (Europe car in case you're interested) they had put my DH as the named driver!! The only reason I noticed was that I was looking to see if I needed to bring any other documents and it turns out the driver needs to produce a credit card. Well my DH doesn't have a credit card.

In fact once I began to think about it, Europe car didn't even know whether or not he could even drive or might have a disability for that matter!! They just assumed "the man will be driving"! I was none too pleased. I phoned to change the name but was told I would have to cancel and rebook in my name. Not only that there would be a cancellation charge! Er no I don't think so! I cancelled without the charge thank you and went and booked a car with someone else.

It just really really wound me up that they assumed that I wouldn't in a million years be driving since - well I mean - I'm a woman!!

Bad that one is really staggering.

Charging you for their own sexist error that really is a new level

This happened to me too, it still pisses me off and I still sometimes call DH applicant 1 if I’m talking about sexism.

Like you I did all the work for our mortgage, I was by far the higher earner and I dealt with all correspondence. I wish I’d dealt with it at the time but it was 20 years ago and I was less confident with these things.

Cars is definitely another one. Again, I buy all the cars and have pretty good knowledge about what I want, specs etc. We went to so many car showrooms where I was ignored and they immediately started talking to him. His answer was always “don’t talk to me, talk to her. I’m not the buyer”

It’s one thing EasyJet have never done though. I am always the main traveller.

I'm a conveyancing solicitor. On 95% of my files the man is named first. I try to change it to alphabetical on where I can but our system doesn't always let me.
I'll ask the new business team what they base it on when they open the files and report back.