I'm being petty but this is still annoying

[LeslieKnope2020]

My husband and I are currently applying for a mortgage using a broker as first time buyers. It's going well, the full application has just gone in and we're very excited. But I'm having a bit of a bad day and this petty little thing just irrationally annoyed me.

My husband has been working away for three months so every single thing has been done by me. Every single email, phonecall and form to complete for the broker has been done by me and I have paid every fee. They have never ever had any contact with my husband.

This morning, I get an email from the solicitors that the broker recommended. The form has been partially filled in by them and who do you think got listed as top billing on the form? My husband. He is 'buyer 1' who's details have all been completed (address, post code, number, email address, DoB, occupation) using the brokers information and I'm 'buyer 2' with literally just my name on the form.

I know, it's petty. I'll hold my hands up and say yes, this is bottom of the barrel stuff. I know, I was in the Army for 6 years having to prove myself everyday simply because I own a vagina. I know there are bigger things to get annoyed about but what really grinds my gears is this tiny everyday sexism that people just either don't notice or brush off.

I have done 100% of this process so I certainly feel like I derserve to have my name as buyer one and to have all of my details on the form so when I first saw it, it was like a hand had reached out and given me a quick slap in the face. Fair enough if the broker didn't tell them they had only been dealing with me and it was just a coincidence my husband is named first with a completed details section. But to only write my name under buyer two and not even bothering to include my details as well?! I know they have my details, the broker sent them over with my husband's! Anyway, will I be wrong to continue my pettiness and scribble out my husband's name and put mine instead?

I find this everytime we get a new car. The family car is always in my name, always. I use it for my business during the week and its used as the family car at the weekend and dp has a van for his work. When we go to find a new car I have usually done my research and know exactly what I'm looking for. Every single time they will basically ignore me and try to persuade dp to consider a different car or go through all the details of the car with him!! They don't seem to like it when they are told that it's ME who is purchasing the car. Whether that's embarrassment because of their sexism, or they fact they would rather deal with the man, I don't know but it really pisses me off!

@LassOfFyviewell no there would multiple ways it could be done, it just doesn't need to be done by sex, there are multiple ways of fairly organising information beyond just the alphabet. But yes, it's one way

Alphabetical has no value judgement. I can't think of any other way which doesn't confer a status on the person listed first.

Order can matter for rentals. Learned this the hard way. XH filled out the application and put himself first. His annual salary did not remotely qualify to rent the place. They just assumed mine would be the same or less and didn’t run the credit check, even though I could easily afford the rent on my own. But trying to convince them to run mine was pointless, because it was a competitive market and they had already moved on to the next application and given them the house.

@LassOfFyvie I think the person who initiates the meeting should be listed first, I assume the OP is a military spouse from her post as I am which means I dealt with everything as he was away, DH never even spoke to our last broker. But she put him first. I wouldn't have been happy if she'd have put him first because his name is earlier in the alphabet either come to think of it, she's dealing with me, so put me down. As nationwide's offer comes addressed only to the first applicant, not joint (that was the basis of my complaint), it wasn't appropriate it was addressed to him.

It's not petty. You have every right to be annoyed, OP.

This happened to me when buying travel insurance on behalf of the family. I completed all the forms, paid premium, entered myself as 'Traveller 1', DH as 'Traveller 2' down etc, etc. The policy was issued with him listed first as the chief policyholder. And the criterion wasn't age or alphabet, because my name comes before his and my septuagenarian mum was way down the list.

Alphabetical has no value judgement. I can't think of any other way which doesn't confer a status on the person listed first.

I agree - if one partner has the bulk of unpaid work (eg caring for children or elderly relatives) that shouldn't confer lower status. I suppose in a financial sense on a mortgage applicant the 'main earner' has some relevance. But higher salary today doesn't necessarily equate to 'more stable employment'.

Have you asked them why it was done this way? It is rude and archaic.

@ErrolTheDragon but let's say the housewife is called Zoe, meets with the broker, handles all the correspondence, and then it gets sent to her husband Adam? As I say with Nationwide they send the mortgage offer to the first applicant alone (they are "looking into this") should the letter only be addressed to Adam despite Zoe being the main applicant? Yes they aren't discriminating against her for her sex or occupation, but now dismissing that she is the one doing the work.

(Main person doing the work I mean, she's been put down as the second applicant according to the alphabet)

As I say with Nationwide they send the mortgage offer to the first applicant alone (they are "looking into this")

The solution is for them to fix their idiotic system and send a jointly made offer to both applicants.

Or, if they really want a 'main applicant' then this should be clearly specified and entirely up to the applicants, not the company's whim. One extra tick box.

The fact that companies don't all already have a sensible solution shows they are complacent about everyday sexism.

@ErrolTheDragon yes absolutely. As I say they upheld my complaint and they are aware of it and have said the are seeking to resolve. As well as the sexism I was annoyed that correspondence about a six figure loan should be sent to both parties liable for it!

I had a classic case recently. I was buying a new car. Researched it and booked various test drives. It so happened that DS (23) was visiting that day and decided to come along for the ride.
Even though I had booked the test drive, I introduced myself and said why we were there, every single salesman addressed and looked at my son. Yes there were only male sales staff. I watched the penny drop as they realised I was actually the customer not the male I was with.
On the way home I ranted about discussed it with DS. He hadn't noticed.

I've been really lucky with car salesmen, they have always seemed pretty clued up that women buy cars too.
Even though I always test drive with DH there, and he test drives his cars when I'm there, the salesman has never had trouble responding to me primarily if it's going to be my car.

That's not petty. I'd be seriously pissed off. I sorted out our mortgage and did all the donkey work, I was the main earner and I was the one they wrote to and that was nearly 30 years ago. So these people are being very old fashioned too.

If it won't jeopardize your mortgage I'd raise a stink. You might even get compensation.

This happened when we had a will made. I dealt solely with the solicitors, but all correspondence was to my husband. Even now they send marketing stuff to him not me...

Is it the stamp duty form? Because that's a form that the government give solicitors to fill in and there is only space for the details of buyer 1 and it does just ask for the name of buyer 2. Don't blame your solicitors it's the government's form.

Iv not had this particular situation but something similar, I had a salesman round for a quote for replacement windows, did my research, had a couple of quotes for comparison, I thought he'd given me a good deal. I'm just about to sign on the dotted line and he said "sorry, you cant sign without the man of the house present" Me "what" Him "we like the man of the house to sign as woman change their minds, I can wait until your hubbys home" Me "well you'll have a long f*** wait cos I own this house & I'm the one paying for the windows" showed him the door. Shame on you Safestyle

Have you by any chance taken your DH’s name?
Just wondering if there is any correlation.

I manage all our finances, credit cards etc all in my name and we have different surnames and I am not “Mrs”. Luckily your scenario hasn’t happened to me (if it did I would be fecking livid) so I wonder if it has anything to do with the old “Mr and Mrs John Smith” attitude. i.e. whereby a woman does not even have her own name

It is annoying. Our older male neighbour always assumes it's my DP who has done the hedge trimming, lawn mowing, planting etc.. I always correct him. My dad and brother used to assume DP had done the DIY... no!

Had this crap both times I’ve bought. Husband the higher earner but deposit completely supplied by me.

1st time I was on maternity leave from a job that paid better than local average- mortgage apparently couldn’t deal with this as my earnings had dropped temporarily. So rather than put my employment and that I was on mat leave they insisted I was listed as homemaker. Fucking homemaker.

2nd time I was earning well from my own business but as it was newish and less than a year old they again wouldn’t take my earnings into account and put me as part time self employed, and a homemaker again. At least this time the broker had the decency to apologise.

Honestly I think the first instance was when the penny started to drop for me and I started to see just what a shite hand women are dealt. I’ve never been a fucking homemaker and I never will. It makes me rage.

Infuriating, and not at all petty!

As a practical matter alone, you need to be the first named on something at least (mortgage, bank, utility etc, where letters tend to be addressed only to first named) so you have proof of residence when you need one of those for ID.

Is it the stamp duty form? Because that's a form that the government give solicitors to fill in and there is only space for the details of buyer 1 and it does just ask for the name of buyer 2. Don't blame your solicitors it's the government's form.

But why should they assume the man is Buyer 1, if none of the dealings to date have been with them? Shouldn't they have filled in the OP's details as Buyer 1, not his?

Yes that's true but generally you start with Mr and then move on to Mrs and no it's not very feminist but it's just the way a lot of people work. My small act of feminist rebellion was always to put the woman's name first on the transfer deed so the title deeds would have the woman's name first and then the man's name.

This happened to me 20 odd years ago, except we were in the office and when asked for our details I gave mine first and the guy moved his pen down the form to the "Buyer 2" box to start writing my details leaving the "Buyer 1" details blank for my DP's details. I told him immediately that if he wanted our buisness he'd better get some new forms and not be so sexist. And he did (though he did splutter on about not being sexist etc. for a minute).

15 years later on another mortgage I had to repeatedly tell our lawyers that I went by Ms. not Mrs.

And 10 years on it seems this sort of everyday sexism continues. I suspect it's because many people, deep down, expect men to be a little bit insulted if they aren't listed ahead of their female partner but think women should be OK with it really because, well, they are second to their male partners, really, when it comes to money.