Why can’t transgender lesbians just date each other?

[Hithere12]

I keep seeing online transgender women so angry a female lesbian doesn’t want to date someone trans, but it begs the question why can’t they just date each other?

If they genuinely believe a trans woman is without question a woman and they are attracted to women then surely this would solve all their problems in terms of finding a partner? They could just date each other? Unless they don’t want to date trans women because they don’t see trans women as real women? Hmm

Because then the transwomen “lesbians” wouldn’t be invading anybody’s territory or telling anybody how to think or who to be attracted to and that just wouldn’t do for them.

This is the sort of question I'd expect from the 18-year-old boys who used to ask me "but how do u no your a lesbain if u never had sex with a man?"

I thought of myself as 100% lesbian as a teenager. Due to internalised homophobia I also thought that most lesbians were repulsive and embarrassing.

Sometimes people are complicated and conflicted. Sometimes they are complicated and conflicted and full of ignorant prejudices too. In my own personal experience the ratio of pushy, entitled or downright dangerous c*s men to pushy, entitled or downright dangerous trans women is roughly infinity:none. The last person whose chauvinism really made my flesh crawl was a 24-year-old butch lesbian of the XX variety. I doubt putting trans lesbians in the little dating ghetto of which you dream would help anyone on any side, OP.

@VickyEadie
That's because lesbians are only attracted to women, ie those who do not have and have never had penises.

Are political lesbians such as Sheila Jeffreys really lesbians then? I.e. women who, in the absence of the visceral desire that you or I might have felt since before we knew it had a name, have trained themselves to prefer women for ideological reasons? Because they exist too, honest. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_lesbianism. I don't want to fuck them or sit on their Pride float but nor can I simply airbrush them out of existence because I don't like or understand them.

No such thing as a trans lesbian. Get a grip of yourself find your brain when you do,find it try using

Internalised homophobia. Bonkers

The reasons why a woman is a lesbian are not relevant in the definition of what a lesbian is. A lesbian will never have been male. She may well have slept with one, but that will not be part of the definition of her being a lesbian.

Obfuscation about individual's lives and political choices are simply attempts to blur the extremely clear boundaries the lesbians on this thread and elsewhere have set. I have no respect whatsoever for someone who would do that, and I dont think anyone else should respect it either.

I had another thought on this. Lesbians don't have the need to consider contraception as of course there is no sperm involved. Surely if they have sex with a transwoman there is the risk of pregnancy and therefore they would need to use contraception (and no doubt condoms are triggering in some way). So yet again, the women have to give up something else and pump themselves full of hormones
A woman who sleeps with a transwoman is heterosexual, not a lesbian.

Obfuscation about individual's lives and political choices are simply attempts to blur the extremely clear boundaries the lesbians on this thread and elsewhere have set.

The individual lesbians on this thread are absolutely entitled to define their own boundaries but it is hypocrisy if they also try to define other and all lesbians' boundaries.

I had another thought on this. Lesbians don't have the need to consider contraception as of course there is no sperm involved. Surely if they have sex with a transwoman there is the risk of pregnancy and therefore they would need to use contraception (and no doubt condoms are triggering in some way). So yet again, the women have to give up something else and pump themselves full of hormones

It's really sweet of you to go what is clearly quite far out of your lane to explore every last means of saving the lesbians, but plenty of women are capable of getting through a shedload of condoms without ever going near a penis and we can any of us just choose not have sex with a trans woman. It's in the rule book, seriously.

Get a grip of yourself find your brain when you do,find it try using

I can't help feeling that this injunction would have had more authority had it been delivered in a coherent sentence. But are you saying you haven't heard of internalised homophobia, littlbrowndog?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with having or liking dick.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being straight, bi, pan, poly, aro or any other damn thing.

Why the fuck do so many dick having or liking people want to call themselves lesbians? and go on lesbian dating apps?

When we were both dating, my sister (homo) had to deal with more unwanted dick pics and aggressive behaviour than I (hetero) did! Albeit I was looking for a penis-bearer and she most definitely was not!

Wtf?? Who is using “shedloads of condoms” for something other than dick? And is someone trying to say PIV sex is lesbian now? Bizarre. Is this all just for screenshots I wonder.

Right I'm really confused now. What the fuck does this mean???

but plenty of women are capable of getting through a shedload of condoms without ever going near a penis

Are you sticking them over your head mate? Like NSPCC rubber wanker?

What the hell is going on?

Homosexuals are SAME SEX attracted
Heterosexuals are OPPOSITE SEX attracted
And bisexuals are attracted to EITHER SEX

Condoms get put on penises to stop the sperm from the male entering another person.

How is this hard.

Oh and anyone who goes on about genital fetishes is simply an incel.

Please explain why lesbians use condoms? Obviously they're more than welcome to if they want to but I'd like to know why? It seems a terrible waste of money to me

Maybe they use them as water balloons? You know in their girlie, pj wearing, fluffy, magical unicorn sleepovers?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make hmm

The point is clear, and it is a good one.

How many trans 'lesbians' who before transition were heterosexual in orientation, are now in a sexual relationship with an other trans 'lesbian'? It would be interesting to know. Does anyone know of any?

How many trans 'lesbians' who before transition were heterosexual in orientation, are now in a sexual relationship with an other trans 'lesbian'?

My ex is, but apparently he was "pansexual" all along.

I've read somewhere that many heterosexual AGPs once transitioned often end up moving towards a sexual orientation towards males.

One of the ironies must be that given sexual excitement/eroticism is largely what drives the AGP in the first place, that after transition it is unlikely that either straight or lesbian women would be attracted sexually to that person. Straight men almost definitely not; and there cannot be that many gay men who be attracted either, although maybe at a slightly higher incidence than any other group?

Maybe a lot of the sexual focus remains inner directed and essentially solo. I expect some sort of sexual validation is sought, though.

My ex is, but apparently he was "pansexual" all along

Does that mean bisexual?

I’ll cut to the chase. They don’t want to date someone with a penis. They don’t see trans women as real women

I imagine the new female identity seeks sexual validation via someone who is sexually oriented towards women. It's a tough ask, though.

On the lesbians and condoms thing..my ex would put condoms on sex toys we used. Not sure if thats common or not though..and obviously its a different reason than..trying not to get pregnant, whn obviously lesbians cannot get other lesbians pregnant anyway.

My ex is, but apparently he was "pansexual" all along

Does that mean bisexual?

Well it would if you thought that there were only two sexes, you could shag both of them = bi.

But bi is so last decade. The really cool dudes are willing to shag all of the 72,000 genders that exist. As long as they are young slim and gorgeous of course.

Luckily for me , pan specifically excludes boring fat middle aged gender free women.

It all seems to require not only mental gymnastics, but a lot of magical thinking. And that is probably because it originates in the head, and not in the body.

Luckily for me , pan specifically excludes boring fat middle aged gender free women.

Yes. Luckily it ended up excluding me too.

I had to google "pansexual" when he put it on his twitter bio while we were still married. He'd never given me the impression that he was anything other than heterosexual before that.

If you take the ideology to its logical conclusion you've got to be pansexual, because gender is in the mind, not the body.

I can't help feeling that this injunction would have had more authority had it been delivered in a coherent sentence

It doesn’t need authority, and it was perfectly readable and understandable.

It’s really not a good look to criticise the posting style of people on mumsnet. People have all sorts of circumstances which can cause problems, including a poster the other day who was trying to type while grappling with a toddler.

My issue is that my ipad hates me

batshite

I had heard that re condoms

How can you have a 'gender free woman'? I realise the comment was tongue in cheek (or at least I hope it was!)

Just to go back to the comparison between attraction to races vs attraction to sexes.

The way I see it the comparison is invalid because, generally, if someone says "I'm not attracted to Asian guys" then that is often rooted in racism (conscious or not). Whereas saying "I'm not attracted to women" isn't rooted in misogyny, it's your innate sexual preference.

My husband is Asian and the number of comments I've heard which people think are totally reasonable but are actually incredibly racist is just insane. Not from random people either, from friends and work colleagues who wouldn't think they were racist at all.

Of course this doesn't mean I think anyone owes sex to anyone to "prove" they're not racist. But when it comes to preferences for people of a certain race it's important to consider the motivations for that preference. Not saying go out and date someone whose a different race, just think about why you're not attracted to black/Asian guys.

Idk, the comparison just pissed me off. My husband isn't some non-man because he's Asian. And my attraction to him isn't dependent on him being Asian, if that makes sense, it's just a part of who he is. Whereas my attraction to him does depend on him being a man!

Sorry that was rambling! I think most people agree that the comparison is invalid but thought I'd just put down my feelings as to why.