US policemen threaten to shoot black mother dead

[Erythronium]

This is one of the most distressing things I have ever seen on Twitter. Policemen threaten to shoot a mother because she can't put her baby down and put her hands up.

twitter.com/SJPeace/status/1139533347280039937

Racism and misogyny in their full horror. The KKK has obviously been recruiting in US police forces.

This is what happens when everyone has a gun. I’m not the least bit surprised. Everyone getting upset is presumably British and this mindset is completely alien to most of us. In America, the police assume everyone has a gun. They’re often right. The police is out of control because they are fearful they will be shot.

It’s a dreadful, dehumanising, terrifying video. Very upsetting. But is is exactly what you should expect when you allow everyone to be armed

As British people (presumably most of us?) we cannot fathom this situation. We think we are so similar to the US but this makes you realise our countries are worlds apart.

I lived in the US for two years. I loved many things about it but gun control (lack thereof) was the reason we came back. I couldn’t bring my children up in a country where everyone is armed

I'm aghast at how short the training is in the US, BackwoodsGirl mentioned her police officer friends had 16 weeks training in comparison to 5 weeks in other states/ counties. Really?? No wonder they have officers who are clearly not up to the task of protecting the public.

I'm also wondering what the entry requirements are for USA police officers.

Here there are extensive medical (including psychological) fitness assessments, A levels are usually a minimum requirement though it's now very much looking like it will become undergrad degree as minimum requirement educationally.

Training is usually around 2 years, with initial training taking 5-6 months

And ours aren't armed!

First of all, why all the talk of racism?

Until I see videos of whites people being treated like this by US cops, we can safely say race plays a part in it.

I keep seeing countless videos like this, and they mainly involve black people.

Why do some find it so hard that racism exists? I feel this type of attitude is what makes it hard to stand racism out.

An alcoholic can't fix their problems until they admit there's a problem, same with drug abusers and same with racists.

This is a statement from the Phoenix Police Force. Nothing about the threats to kill or use of excessive force. Nobody was charged:

"On May 27, 2019, at approximately 11:17 a.m., a Phoenix Police Officer was investigating an unrelated shoplifting at a store in the area of 1600 N. 36th Street, when he was advised by store employees of another shoplifting. The officer was directed to some individuals who were getting into a vehicle. He observed a woman drop a “food foil,” when she saw him. As he walked towards the vehicle, the car quickly backed up and started to leave parking lot. It stopped at McDowell Road, and one of the women got out and the car drove away. The woman was detained by the officer. It was later found the woman he detained had three misdemeanor warrants for her arrest. She was later booked for the warrants.

A description of the vehicle was broadcasted over the radio. The vehicle was located a short distance from the store near 32nd Street and McDowell Road and followed it was followed into the parking lot of an apartment complex in the area of 3200 E. Roosevelt Street, where a man and woman in the car were taken into custody and detained. After being advised of her rights, the woman who had been detained, said her aunt and child went into the store and when she saw her child walk out of the store with a doll, she believed they had stolen it, because they didn’t have any money.

She heard the officer who approached the car in the parking lot tell the driver to stop several times, but he didn’t. After being advised of his rights, the man said he knew they had shoplifted from the store and that he threw a pair of underwear out the window, because he knew they were stolen. In addition, he stated he knew he was driving on a suspended driver license. Because the property was returned, the store employees said they did not desire prosecution, so no one was charged with the shoplifting. The man however, was cited and his vehicle was impounded, due to his driving on a suspended license."

www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/phoenix-shoplifting-video-brutality-family-files-claim-11312081

@Backwoodsgirl

You clearly live in a low crime state by US standards (your violent crime rate per 1,000 pop is 1.19 compared to the US national average of 3.8). But your homicide rate is still massively higher than in the UK. From the stats you have provided it’s 0.2/1000. In the UK as a whole in 2016 it was 1.2/100,000 in 2016, equivalent to 0.012/1,000, in other words the murder rate in Maine is about 17 times higher than the UK as a whole. Still, glad you feel safe with your gun.

Thank goodness that this incident was videoed. I hope the couple sue the police officers involved. I can only imagine that the educational and training requirements for the US police force are incredibly low.

The police actions, totally unnecessary gun culture and racism are some of the main reasons I wouldn’t move to the US. I don’t like going there for work trips and can’t wait to get on the plane home.

That statement is so confusing, naming other people irrelevant to what they have been filmed doing. Obviously protecting the little shit. It doesn’t really matter if they did it by accident or on purpose. Stealing a pair of underwear and a toy doll doesn’t warrant that behaviour from a police officer. Also, that statement completely contradicts the man and woman’s linked earlier. Very very odd.

Just awful - violent and aggressive. When I was a child I wanted to live in America. You wouldn't catch me there now.

@Parker231

Thank goodness that this incident was videoed. I hope the couple sue the police officers involved. I can only imagine that the educational and training requirements for the US police force are incredibly low.

I think they are, someone posted a link to the letter before action from their lawyer above. I know that criminal prosecutions of police officers in these circumstances seem to have a laughable success rate, but I don’t know about civil suits. Personally, I find it almost impossible to see how it can be justified to threaten to shoot a pregnant woman (holding a baby and sitting next to a pre-schooler) in the head. Particularly when the suspected offence is stealing a fucking Barbie.

@TreaterAnita - that’s good to hear. I’m sure there would be lawyers happy to take on such a case. If nothing else it gives a message to the US police that their behaviour is unacceptable and unlikely, but hopefully something would change. I thought after Sandy Hook that things would change the Americans are obsessed with their right to bear arms, regardless of how many innocent people get killed and injured. No member of the public needs a gun or to be threatened by someone using one. What is happening in America shows that their gun culture isn’t making the country any safer although hardly surprising when you have an idiot like Trump around.

Bloody horrific video. The child is lucky to still have a mother.

Anyone who feels the need to say they feel safer carrying a concealed weapon than they would living somewhere where weapons are not required is delusional.

I hope the couple sue the police officers involved

Law firms were quick off the mark. According to the US press, the couple have started an action and are suing for ten million dollars.

And hopefully the police officers dismissed.

Ginger1982

I feel safer in the US, than I did in the 30 years I lived in the UK, simply because I know I have the ability to defend myself here. I was attacked several times in the UK and each time I was defenseless.

I carry not because I feel I need to in order to be safe, I carry because I can.

Attacked several times in England? Wow. You must be unlucky. An attacker will attack whether you have a gun or not. So the fact you haven’t been attacked in the US isn’t because you have a gun. You’ve just not run into someone who wants to attack you. You just need to look at America’s statistics to know this.

Your gun is dangerous. If you carry it to feel safe, and have been attacked before, it’s very easy to suspect someone innocent of being a potential attacker. You could easily shoot someone..does that not scare you? It may be safer for you, but what about other humans?

Anyone who feels the need to say they feel safer carrying a concealed weapon than they would living somewhere where weapons are not required is delusional.

Absolutely.

It's all a bit me, me, me backwoodsgirl. This family were in danger for their lives from the police but because you feel safe it's all good in the US of A? I don' think so.

Yes @Backwoodsgirl it's sound like you're trying to convince yourself that this case isn't an issue. Why is that? It's crazy how one can see video evidence of brutality and still try to minimise it! But hey as king as you feel safe no one else matters, what a selfish attitude.

Ffs, was this toy doll worth more than the life of the 4 year old who took it?!!!!

This is a major difference in American attitudes and law though, isn't it? They see property in a much different way than the UK, Australia, or Canada does. You are allowed to defend property in the US far beyond what you can in most other places. I'm sure that has to affect people's perceptions.

If the argument is “self defence” or to “feel safe”, it’s absolutely ridiculous: 2 people have an argument that may get physical. A takes out a gun to feel safe. B follows suit to protect themself. A sees B’s gun and shoots. B dies. A claims self defence.

How else can this story go?! I don’t get the protection thing, unless it’s a zombie apocalypse and then, yes, I’d definitely want and need a gun to feel safe.

I carry not because I feel I need to in order to be safe, I carry because I can.

I thought your whole point so far was that carrying a gun/other people carrying guns made you feel safer? There is absolutely zero logic to "I carry because I can". I mean, you can also stick chopsticks in your lips and pretend to be a walrus while you go about your day but I doubt you exercise that particular right just because you can.

People that go into unpredictable situations involving violence on a regular basis can begin to behave abnormally, its why you so often see these kinds of behaviours in certain kinds of setting.

I find this really interesting. I've worked in shelters and other scary environments and worked with paramedics and firefighters and social workers. I've seen people kicked in the head, overdosing, screaming violent abuse at me. The ONLY people I have ever seen acting like jumped up little psychos are police officers. Now I've seen fantastic, wonderful, compassionate police officers too. Many of them. But the only people in high stress, high risk environments getting really aggro are the police. And possibly military. But that's rare and actually I've only seen that overseas. I've seen staff and paramedics cry, even walk out but never threaten or physically attack anyone, and I've seen police officers do it unprovoked.

And being attacked several times backwoods? You must be very unlucky because I lived in an absolute shithole in London and wasn't attacked multiple times a year. Harassed a few times by idiot men. Sure. But physically attacked, no.

What gets me about the clip is this. Not the violence and threats, not the swearing, not the pointing guns, we've all seen that. It's not shocking. It's the desperate desire of the officers to reduce these people to nothing. Things that just obey, comply and do what they are told. There's no empathy, no humanity, they see the people they are threatening as worse than animals. Any human seeing a pregnant mother with a baby should feel warmth, it's built in.

And reducing people to things is possible because of racism. Unless these men reduce every person they meet to nothing. In which case they extra super really shouldn't have a badge and a gun. They probably shouldn't be freely walking the streets either. He threatened to shoot a pregnant woman holding her baby in the head. Let that sink in.