Would a move back to single sex education help our girls?

[BalletBunting]

I've been meditating on this recently - particularly seeing reports of the shocking levels of sexual harassment girls experience at school, as well as seeing the levels of gender stereotyping both my DC (one of each) have experienced since they were born. It made me wonder whether a move back to more single sex schools (for secondary at least) could actually have a positive effect on children of both sexes (and girls in particular)

Less sexual harassment, less stereotyping and as I understand the research shows that children do better in single sex environments, where they don't feel they need to 'perform' for the opposite sex. It also means that difficulties of puberty including hormones, menstruation etc can be dealt with in what might feel like a more safe environment.
Thoughts?

CitadelsofScience we all did a year of typing in the 3rd year - 11 A* candidates and might get 5 C's candidates together (school wasn't officially selective but there was an entrance exam and not everyone was offered a place). Only girls for whom English wasn't their first language and who needed EFL support didn't take a foreign language GCSE.

I don't know I guess see single sex schooling as a way to avoid tackling the problems we should be in a way. This view that its better for girls to go to a single sex school rather than tackling harassment and stereotypes from early years just seems so wrong headed. It misses the point for me

Some boys are very boisterous and very physical, simple as that. And many girls are far more articulate and far more focused on relationship. Whether that is learned behaviour or inherent, or a bit of both -who knows. But who wants their daughter to be the canary in the coal mine?

Learning to get on with men really isn’t that hard. As pp have pointed out, we’re members of the same species. It shouldn’t be a priority for any parent making choices wrt their daughter’s education.

I'm not sure how you learn those skills only seeing men at after school activities. Schools that mix with boy's schools in 6th form or for certain activities seem implicitly to recognise this

Well, lots of girls in single sex schools learn to recognise their own voice ( as a female) by not having to consider or kow- tow to male show-boating - thus developing an expectation that their views, thoughts and opinions have equal validity.

There's no right or wrong here, though - there are just different experiences, based on different personalities, temperaments and circumstances.

I was always a Daddy's girl. He encouraged me on an intellectual level and never set limits in that way. Thus I've always liked men ( generally) and get on with them. No need to go to a mixed secondary school to learn that.

I want my daughter to know that her opinions are as important as a man's in an academic, and therefore professional, context and have the confidence to voice them

She will learn that from you and from her father primarily; and that will also be dependent, of course, on her inherent temperament and personality.She doesn't need to be in a classroom with boys in order to learn or embody that.

I've never been shy about voicing my views, and I contribute as one of the very few women, if not the only woman, on a male dominated forum. I hold my own quite happily. I went to an all girls school,

There's no generalisation really. It is all dependent on individual circumstances.

enforce girls and boys are equal from nursery with no sport or subject kept back from any children

But equal doesn't necessarily mean the same.

Girls should know they can do as well and or better than boys and how can they in a single sex environment

It's not about competing with boys, as such, as much as girls just doing and performing the best they can in the subjects they like.

I'm always profoundly saddened when my granddaughter comes home from nursery ( mixed sex) and says things like " girls can be just as good as boys at....". Wow! She's only four - and as bright as a button.

I had very, very limited opportunities to form friendships with boys and grew up with no clue how to relate to them. Thankfully I got out and went to a mixed sex sixth form

What was your relationship with your father like ( or father substitute?). I think this is more profoundly shaping than whether you go to school with boys, myself.

But it happens and that's the real world. I could have done with some experience and coping strategies

Confront the offender, and if it persists report them to the management team.

I think the problem with discussions like this is that our views are so informed by our own (naturally limited) experiences.

People also get very defensive about implied criticism of them or of the choices they have made for their daughters.

Personally I always feel that discussion about single-sex education ends up in fairly reductive gender stereotyping though.

Justhadathought, my relationship with both parents is not great now I am an adult tbh (I have asked for advice on here!) but it isn’t too awful. As a child my dad wasn’t around much at the week but very much there at weekends. Relationship not bad but he was overly focused on academic achievement for my liking.

My inability to deal with boys and men was far more linked IMO to school. It’s fine now, no problems at all. I no longer view them as a separate species .

Have the people thinking that single sex schools free you from the male gaze been to a single sex school as a pupil?

Yes I have. I went to mixed until 13, then 13-18 single sex and I enjoyed both, but preferred to be single sex at an age where lots of changes where happening to my body. I always had plenty of male friends outside school, from primary days too, some are still my friends today- including my husband!
My DD went to mixed schools until secondary, and has gained a lot of confidence in a single sex environment. She is autistic and gets anxiety so I think even better for her just to be with girls most of the time. As I said before, she knows lots of boys from drama, and from primary year’s still too.

Clearly all our experiences are very different JessicaWakefieldSV I'd say again that I enjoyed my girls school days and do think there were advantages within lesson time. I'm of the opinion that it actually intensified my perception of the male gaze when subjected to it, plus the mere existence of a girls' boarding school (and our rediculous conspicuous though not sexualised uniforms making us stick out like sore thumbs) attracted the worst sort of male attention when we were free to go into the small local town - which we had to do in uniform - or to seek out male company of course).

Some of the comments sounded like things my parents migh confidently but incorrectly have said they'd given their daughters. My parents having decided as soon as their first daughter was born to use girls schools and been clear in their reasons, but never having troubled themselves to try to find it whether their preconceived ideas were correct throughout our schooling!

A girl's grammar in a city is obviously totally different to a girl's boarding school though - and as this thread is about state education maybe the boarding school experience isn't that relevant. Despite having mostly enjoyed my girls' boarding school days, knowing the reality ofmy pupil experience I would never send my DD to one!

*ridiculous not re - I don't write in English anymore except on MN and am losing my grip on the written language argh!

Single sex is much better for secondary girl's education. They are happier, do better, and don't have to deal with boy's harassment and everyday sexism that is rampant everywhere now. There are actually very few girls schools left now unless you have the money to pay privately.

We had the option of typing at school (single sex), which I did as an optional extra in the 6th form. Those capable of doing A-levels weren't encouraged to do it as a full-time subject, but it's probably one of the most useful things I did - even if we weren't destined to be secretaries (a view definitely expressed by some teachers, "girls of your calibre...") who did they think would be typing up our dissertationsite and so on?

We also had woodwork and metal work (and plastic work) facilities, so I did a bit of all those in art.

I am not sure the boys school had as wide a range of options for non- core subjects. It's probably irrelevant, since they brought in the National Curriculum, which was a few years after I left.

I think my conclusion is to go to a good school, whether or not it's single sex or not. For many people, if you can't afford to go private, you don't have much choice. We were a largely rural catchment, and in the '80s, there was a boys secondary and a girls secondary. They merged in the '90s, and there's now just one large mixed secondary. Unless you can afford to go private, you don't have a choice.

Were abroad and all DC do learn touch typing in year 7, girls and boys, before they start IT properly. It's timetabled as IT bu typing is viewed as the preliminary, the same way the kids learn cursive handwriting before they learn to write for different purposes.

Sorry - total aside in the typing there!

anothernotherone

My school was boarding also, in NZ, as my parents were farmers in isolated areas. I actually don’t like the boarding part of it, and would never send my child to boarding school. I hesitate slightly as I don’t want to offend anyone sending kids to boarding schools, this is just my opinion, but I think it’s an abnormal way to grow up basically permanently in school away from your family unit. For me it was the right choice my mother made, but because our Dad was abusive she wanted us 3 girls away from him. So a different circumstance I hope than most. I can actually identify with what you’re saying another with respect to being quite conspicuous when a boarder, we would have to go into the shops in groups and local boys knew us as boarders etc and could be a pain when we were out. We did have a lot of mixed social events with local schools so it did change as we got older.

I would have loved to do touch typing at school! Would have been really helpful. Have often wished I could touch type and would have been genuinely useful professionally.

Touch typing is an invaluable life skill - shocking it’s not taught to everyone. I earned double my friends in the student holidays working as a legal secretary while they did bar work. Now as a solicitor working for myself I dont need to buy in support as touch type my own work very fast. Dh also learned to type young. We’ve bought a programme to teach our kids

Off topic, sorry OP, but could you recommend a programme MsTSwift? I keep meaning to learn. I can type pretty fast (for a non admin role) but can’t touch type at all.

My kids learnt with the BBC Dance Mat typing. It gives you the basics and then you only need practice.

Personally I always feel that discussion about single-sex education ends up in fairly reductive gender stereotyping though.

My feeling too, but I don't have any experience of single-sex education settings, so I can only go by others' experiences. The data on increased sexual harassment cases is concerning. There are lots of comments in my house about 'the boys' and 'the girls' which I always question. Stereotypes exist and many times they have some true in them for whatever reasons. Just yesterday my son told me that he gets many comments about his passion for football when he is also academically good and has long hair (apparently he looks like a girl; academic ability/sport and long hair seem to be incompatible).

I guess it is a good thing to spend time without these stereotypes 7 hours a day, if this is the case in single-sex schools.

Still wondering what period of time the OP wants to 'go back' to though (honest curiosity; I moved here as an adult so no idea about the system before)

My school did night school classes in touch typing for adults. I was 16 at the time but me and two other friends enrolled (and had free places as we were in full time education) to do it.

Invaluable.

I don't know why it wasn't available to us as part of school itself.

Thanks camaleon