Would a move back to single sex education help our girls?

[BalletBunting]

I've been meditating on this recently - particularly seeing reports of the shocking levels of sexual harassment girls experience at school, as well as seeing the levels of gender stereotyping both my DC (one of each) have experienced since they were born. It made me wonder whether a move back to more single sex schools (for secondary at least) could actually have a positive effect on children of both sexes (and girls in particular)

Less sexual harassment, less stereotyping and as I understand the research shows that children do better in single sex environments, where they don't feel they need to 'perform' for the opposite sex. It also means that difficulties of puberty including hormones, menstruation etc can be dealt with in what might feel like a more safe environment.
Thoughts?

In a truly equal and unsexist society, there would be no need for single sex schools at all.

But that's not 21st century U.K., unfortunately.

DD was very against the idea of single sex schools when we first started thinking about secondarys when she was in yr5; by yr 6 she was fed up with boys tending not to take schoolwork seriously enough. (This was in a school with generally good discipline standards too). She thrived in a single sex secondary, both academically and otherwise.

At this point in time, coed schools seem to result in far greater disparities in subject choices than single sex. DDs school did not in any way push the girls into STEM subjects, but they were free to choose what they wanted. If a girls school is offering comp sci , clearly it's not a 'boys subject', there's no peer pressure against taking it. Having been the only girl or one of two in my A level classes, I'm glad DD wasn't in that position.

Re the question of whether single sex schools are beneficial, there's a city somewhere in the Far East which had an education system which provided some interesting data. It had a mix of single sex and coed schools across the city, and the children were randomly allocated - no parental preference bias. The outcome there was that boys did slightly better in single sex and girls did significantly better. Obviously that's a rather specific case and the only metric was academic results.

No way. I went to a single sex school and absolutely hated it. I will never inflict that on my daughters (nor would I on my sons if I had any).

I went to an an all girls' secondary school ( C.Of E/11 plus) and really enjoyed it. We had lots of strong, independent female role models as teachers. Looking back I think many were lesbians; or certainly, older unmarried women -and at a time when teaching was one of those jobs was sen as a being a good, respectable option for educated independent women.

Sport was very strong too; far more so than in the mixed sex schools in which I later taught as a teacher, myself.

I guess there is no one solution fits all, but I've always seen all girl schools as a positive. It's not as if many of us did not have brothers or other male relatives, or that we didn't socialise with boys outside of school. We did.

Mine was an academic school, with high expectations of its girls and what they might do in the future; but I'm pretty confident that many girls who went to single sex secondary moderns may well have been channeled, instead, into traditional female service roles - such as hairdressing, typing, child minding etc

Girls schools are not 'cloisters', the idea is quite hilarious.
Leastwise, non-religious ones aren't. There may be some serious objections to any sort of segregation on religious grounds, both single-faith and within some of those single sex for religious reasons.

I taught at a girls' school for a few years. There was a benefit in STEM subjects - no "boys subject" ideas and there were more girls taking A level physics than A level biology.

I’m vehemently against single sex education. My children are at an excellent co-Ed school where boys and girls are treated identically and I am not aware of any bias against STEM subjects or belittling of girls choices. Neither have I heard of any sexual issues. For me the advantage of single sex schools is the organic opportunity to develop deep and lasting friendships with the opposite sex and to work with them and interact as equals and peers from day 1 in a way that doesn’t happen in a single sex school and is not the same in an external activity.

Agree with Errol girls who attend single sexual schools are not cloistered away from boys.

They are educated separately.

Plenty of out of school stuff takes place in mixed groups.

My dd is in a single sex school and I believe it was the best choice. She was in a mixed primary where she struggled and found it very difficult socially. She often described lessons where the boys dominated and I saw for myself at PE how in team games the boys just took over completely and the girls basically trailed around the pitch with no one passing to them. I'd recommend it to anyone. She's thriving and happy and I knew from very early on that this was the route we'd take for her.

applepieicecream just because you have heard of 'no sexual issues' doesnt' mean that sexual harassment isn't happening (and the statistics posted above show that it is, in mixed sex schools across the country).
Similarly how on earth can you know boys and girls are treated identically? That sounds fairly naive

We are lucky to have a healthy mix of single sex/mixed state schools locally. I wanted dd to go to a mixed school because I loathed my ss school but loved mixed 6th form. I now think that actually it wasn’t the ss, but the school.

Dd wanted to got to a single sex school not because it was ss, but because she liked it. It has been great for her academically and socially and a by-product is that she has avoided some of the hideous comments that friends Girls have been subjected to at a local mixed school. But again - that might just be THAT school.

Ds was adamant that he wanted to go to a mixed school, so he has. It has suited him, and I do think that having girls there has diluted s9me of the testosterone-y intensity of the local ss boys school. Which has suited him.

*where boys and girls are treated identically

I doubt that. Also don’t think just because you haven’t heard of any assaults, that it doesn’t happen.

I didn’t really socialise with boys outside school much at all and was massively socially hampered by it. As soon as I could I got out of that artificial environment and, as I said, would never send a child there.

Just read you know 3timeslucky. Totally agree. Life is not single-sex. You spend a large part of your childhood/teenage years socialising within a school that does not represent the society you are theoretically preparing to enter

Myself and then my daughter both attended single sex secondary schools. I had a brother and socialised with boys outside of school, and my daughter has two brothers. I'd say we both have always got on really well with men, and being at all girls schools made us both very independent and able to hold our own in mixed company.

I used to be a teacher myself - and have taught in both mixed and single sex - and I'd still say that I'd be happy for my granddaughter to attend an all girls secondary school. Most people attend mixed sex primaries.

I don't think attending a mixed sex school necessarily makes girls better able to deal with the males of the species, any more than going to an all girl school makes girls, necessarily, unable to relate to men and boys.

apple
You say you arent aware of any issues.

Have you looked the progress I breakdown of the school?

Specifically where it lists the percentages of girls and boys achieving 5 or 4 and above at GCSE ?

Last time I checked the schools where I lived ( the non grammar co-ed ones)

What ever group did better. Did better fairly significantly so. The results were really uneven.

Which even In schools considered good is a worry as it does indicate an issue somewhere with how boys or girls are treated or taught

Might he worth a look to see if there's any surprises at the school you are talking about

Progress 8 breakdown

So you’d have mixed sex changing rooms too would you? Mixed sex hospital wards? I think that confuddles segregation with separation Jessica

But no. I don't think the answer to an increasingly weird world is to ghettoise ourselves or our children. So no, no segregation by sex, but yes to appropriate separation.

I went to a girls school for secondary, but we didn't operate in complete isolation. There was a partner boys school, and we did things like share drama productions and French exchange trips with them. A lot of 6th form classes were shared - half my A-level classes were at the boys school (there was a shuttle bus between the two schools, or a 20 minute walk.) I also saw boys at swimming club and other activities out of school, and on the school bus, and just around town. We'd known a lot of them from primary anyway. I still know some of them, even though we're now in our 40s and some of us have moved away.

Single sex education doesn't mean total isolation. I do think at secondary level, it's good for girls. There are so many reports about sexual assault and rape in schools - I don't want girls becoming inured to that, but to have their own space to focus on education. If they're sheltered from the worst of it, they might have more confidence to challenge it as young adults, rather than just accepting it.

There's also evidence that the numbers of girls taking STEM subjects is higher in all girls schools - it wasn't till I had left school that I really encountered attitudes about girls not being good at maths. There's a whole load of stereotyping I missed out on by not being in a mixed school in those teen years.

If I had a daughter, I would want her to have a single sex secondary education - though it depends on the details. No school will suit every child, and a good mixed school would usually be better than a poor single sex school. But all else being equal, I am in favour of single sex education at secondary level.

I used to think like that dey

Then I realised what It really meant was that basically they dont get used to being groped,

Everyone will have their own experience that will influence their opinion.
I went to a mixed school and was bullied, humiliated and, technically sexually assaulted I suppose, by the girls, but I know that's not the experience for most.

There are a couple of single sex (for boys and for girls) schools near me.

Some years ago I remember people who had received single sex education saying they wanted their girls to go to a mixed sex school, so they would be used to and comfortable with the opposite sex.

My son went to a boy's school but girls were admitted in the Vl form, later on it went co-ed which seems to be the norm now.

It all depends on the individual child. There are girls who would hate to have schooling with loud boys who take the mick and cause embarrassment, for others it's water off a duck's back.

I went to an all girls school at 13. It was very near an all boys school so there was some official, and a fair bit more unofficial - at breaks - mixing. But lessons without boys were so much better than they had been at the mixed school from 11-13, and there was a female atmosphere and camaradarie within the school that I would have hated to have missed.

Love all girls education. Dd3 is going in year 9.

I would 100% send DD to a single sex school if there was the option. She struggles academically and is therefore in lower sets which are constantly disrupted by boys messing around.

Each child and each school varies, obviously.

By chance, DDs main out of school activity was mostly girls in her particular age group but yet somehow she arrived at uni perfectly able to form friendships with young men, afaik just treats them as, y'know, equal human beings and expects that to be reciprocated.

I've taught in both. I loved the all girls' school. Would love to send my dds to one but unlikely to happen where we live now, unless they turn out super intelligent and can get a scholarship to an indy. Would love if there were more options for single sex education.

I also prefer mix-ability classes rather than 'sets'. However, there are times when segregation is needed (privacy/extra lessons for SENs or whatever/language support, etc.)

Are you a teacher yourself? I was, and have to say I don't like mixed ability teaching at all. It is rare that all children get their needs met properly. The weaker ones don't get the attention they need; and the really bright ones don't get stretched anywhere near enough.

I really dislike the 'differentiation by resource' method of teaching; as the teacher ends up just being a class monitor rather than actively engaged.

That's just my view and experience anyway.