Owen Jones Twitter feed

[christinarossetti19]

Lil' OJ is being demolished as he tries to defend Bergdorf etc

Look now if you're interested as it will no doubt be deleted soon.

twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1138809431792263169

fibbke

Ignoring the cheap lawyer jibe, I’m astonished if you’ve been advised by any reputable lawyer you can sack on the spot. Are we at cross purposes - I agree you can sack without notice, summary dismissal, after a meeting, is that what you mean? I had taken you to mean tell him he’s fired as soon as it was found out about the video?

See here: www.gov.uk/dismiss-staff/fair-dismissals

This matters because if we make baseless complaints like this about the NSPCC, we look like we don’t know what we are talking about and have less credibility for the complaints which matter, eg calling those complaining bullies, not suspending etc.

In the meantime, get new lawyers.

I’m astonished if you’ve been advised by any reputable lawyer you can sack on the spot

A reputable lawyer would surely say that absolutely they can, but it may cost them at a tribunal?

Are you sure you are an employment lawyer? Or do you identify as one?

So an employer can sack someone, and then cough up the £ if the lose a tribunal. It is not the same as saying that an employer absolutely cannot sack someone.

I assumed we were talking about lawful behaviour. If anyone took me to mean they literally couldn’t sack someone, that they laws of physics would operate to somehow stop the words “you’re fired” coming out of their mouths, then yes that was misleading. It is physically possible to ignore the law and fire him on the spot. But it would be cast iron unfair dismissal and I don’t expect them to do that.

I do expect them to take it seriously and follow their own procedures for dealing with such things, instead of attack those raising concerns.

You’re just being needlessly rude now sackrifice

It is physically possible to ignore the law and fire him on the spot.

Thank you. Well done. We got you there at last.

What is this bickering for.

The statement earlier was that it would be hard to sack him for this.

Implying that this sort of thing is not gross misconduct and anyone who thinks so is prudish/ out of step with the modern world / that sort of thing.

This is misleading.

Simon Pegg sketch from years ago on wanking at work. Amazing how comedy/satire is now reality

The poster who said that later referred to 'getting people fired' so make of that what you will.

Uklib that is bloody brilliant. Any chance you can post that on OJ's twitter feed

That video is brilliant!

“It’s covert oppression!”

“Do you remember when we didn’t wank for a week for charity?”

“I don’t want to be sent off to wank in a little room like a leper”

The poster who said that later referred to 'getting people fired' so make of that what you will.

Are you serious? It's not some kind of conspiratorial language.

Firing someone is a process. You have to take the time to go through it, maybe even to some kind of outside arbitration is they oppose what you've done. Therefore if you want to fire someone, you have to go through the process of getting them fired. It's not some kind of conspiratorial language, its true even if the person doing the firing is completely in the right and the employee is completely in the wrong.

Thank you. Well done. We got you there at last.

If we're reading into things - you are suggesting they fire him illegally?

If we're reading into things - you are suggesting they fire him illegally?

No. I was clarifying a point that was incorrectly made. Do you need it clarifying again?

Firing someone is a process. You have to take the time to go through it, maybe even to some kind of outside arbitration is they oppose what you've done. Therefore if you want to fire someone, you have to go through the process of getting them fired. It's not some kind of conspiratorial language, its true even if the person doing the firing is completely in the right and the employee is completely in the wrong.

I can see you do.

Any employer can indeed fire someone if they want without any process. However, if they do, they may be subject to a tribunal which if they lose, may result in expenses being awarded to the fired employee.

Normally employers cannot sack an employee on grounds of misconduct without an initial warning and notice being given. However, if an employee commits a serious offence (known as gross misconduct) which requires their swift removal from the workplace, a summary dismissal is possible. In this scenario, a letter dismissing an employee on grounds of gross misconduct should be used to set out the reasons for their dismissal and formalise the process.
All that's required is a disciplinary hearing. JM has already been warned - presumably this was an official warning although somehow I wouldn't bet on it.
The NSPCC's response has been wilfully inadequate and the total opposite of good, sound management practice.

Any employer can indeed fire someone if they want without any process

I assume you’re being wilfully obtuse. The issue is not whether someone in the NSPCC has vocal chords and is physically capable of telling someone they’re dismissed. All your silly point amounts to is that a human being can verbalise the words “you are dismissed”. I am genuinely stunned you think that is what the discussion has been. The rest of us are assuming no one is suggesting they flout the law.

If NSPCC dismiss someone on the spot without following a process they are acting unlawfully. Agree?

So if you are maintaining that they should dismiss him and then pay out at a tribunal (as you seem to be) then the answer to PP’s question “are you suggesting they fire him illegally” is yes, you are. No one has to pay out at a tribunal if they have acted lawfully, and you don’t seem to understand that.

Its like someone coming in the thread and saying “yes of course Munroe Bergdorf can ask kids to DM her on Twitter” and then when challenged on it saying “of course she can, it’s just that she’s breaching safeguarding rules and might lose her position at the NSPCC. But she can do it!” And then acting like other people are stupid.

The NSPCC's response has been wilfully inadequate and the total opposite of good, sound management practice

Think we can all agree on this

If NSPCC dismiss someone on the spot without following a process they are acting unlawfully. Agree?

Nobody will come and lock them up, no.

So if you are maintaining that they should dismiss him and then pay out at a tribunal (as you seem to be)

No I am not saying that at all.

Many people come onto forums and people say 'they cannot dismiss you,' when in fact, they can dismiss whoever they want. They will just run the risk of a tribunal if they do.

Telling people that their employer cannot dismiss them is incorrect and misleads people especially when they cannot afford an employment lawyer to take an employer to a tribunal.

Just be careful what it is that you are saying, is my point.

LangCleg
But I think what Owen is at the greatest of pains to obscure is that he is left gentry, not a plucky working class hero.

Absolutely!

It's not at all surprising that he feels he can speak for women, he's built an entire career on appropriating the issues faced by other groups and not only claiming to be an authority on them, but attempting to silence any member of those groups who dares to suggest he hasn't got the faintest idea what he's talking about.

sackrifice civil laws which you can’t be locked up for, such as the Employment Rights Act are still laws. But look, ultimately we want the same thing. We want the NSPCC to take this seriously and dismiss this individual. I don’t want it to be done in a way that means he can win a tribunal and give the TRAs that PR victory, that’s all.

@NewarkShark I don't know but there's something about the tone of your posts that make me feel that firing him on the spot would be an unreasonable thing to do. It's like one minute there I am thinking that firing him straight away is what any right thinking society/company would do, and then the next minute I'm wondering about employment law and whether it's fair to "get someone fired"

Am I being gaslit I'm wondering

Gaslit by me? How so? It wasn’t me who said anything about “getting him fired”, and not sure how that would be me gaslighting you anyway. I think he should be dismissed for this. I have been on the FWR boards for ages under different usernames, I’m not your enemy on this.

I spent 3 years being gaslit in an abusive relationship. I despise the gaslighting of the TRAs, making women feel they are bigots and bullies for daring to speak up for their own interests and safety. I despise gaslighting and honestly I’m bewildered by your post.

then the next minute I'm wondering about employment law and whether it's fair to "get someone fired

What do you mean 'get someone fired'?

If someone has committed gross misconduct then they got themselves fired surely? This man put his kinks on his website and linked it in his own linked in. There was no digging, it was in plain sight.

@sackrifice I know, I was trying to be tongue in cheek, I've just got off a Sunday morning work shift so I'm tired.
I think it's gross that someone has used the term " get people fired" in the context of this perv at the NSPCC, like us mumsnetters are up to no good trying to "get people fired" because the implication in this is that the person hasn't really done anything wrong. Back in the real world I agree with you, you just fire someone for their behavior don't you.