Lily Allen “tried to avoid being a woman” because of the derogatory way her father spoke about them.

[stumbledin]

It can be hard enough in families if you have male relatives who are constantly negating and insulting women. And it must be worse in one of them (like Lily Allen's dad) earns his living by doing this on tv.

Can you imagine if Russell Brand was your father.

I dont know much about Lily Allen but she has my sympathies for the poison he must have put in her mind.

"when she was growing up, her relationship with her father, actor Keith Allen, was “fragmented” and that the language he used when talking about women negatively impacted her ability to form female friendships."

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/lily-allen-dad-keith-woman-daughters-interview-stylist-a8955071.html

Lily Allen loves creating drama and playing the victim 🙄

Lily Allen loves creating drama and playing the victim
Agreed Leoby
But I can see it - given, for many of us;
when she was growing up, her relationship with her father, [ whoever he was ], was “fragmented” and that the language he [ and many other men ] use[d] when talking about women negatively impacted her ability to form female friendships.
(My bolds)

Maybe she learned to play the victim? Anyway, I say negative things about Keith Allen. Not that he's my dad of course, but still.

On the positive side Lily's mother, Alison Owen, is gender critical.

Keith Allen is an incredibly unpleasant misogynist - I've never been able to stand him. It must have been very hard being his daughter. I don't think Lily Allen is playing the victim here, she's being brave by talking about it.

I don't really know anything about these people, but I would bet quite a lot that there is a relationship between growing up in a family where there is domestic abuse and thinking you are 'born in the wrong body'

playing the victim

I see.

Lily Allen paid for sex with a number of prostituted women. And she used that fact to merely highlight her own woe is me narrative.

I can’t take any feminism seriously from someone who buys women’s bodies. And before this revelation I had a soft spot for her.

There really isn't much substance in that article is there? I'm struggling to see how anyone could read it and come to the conclusion she is saying something "incredibly important".

Her use of prostitutes is vile.

When I posted this last night I suppose I sort of wondered whether women would share their own experiences of having grown up with toxic masculinity.

I sort of assumed as this is a feminist forum the harmful influence on children who "learn" about society through their parent/s attitudes and behaviour.

I'm not that into celebrity culture but have seen references from male celebrities (including Russell Brand) about how their attitudes to women were formed by fathers who consumed porn (and various substances). And all too often their life story is of their damaging relationships with women, and later on admitting they have been shits and now of course are in a proper relationship (with no apology to the women / children damaged by them) and they get huge praise.

I posted the link because it is unusually for a woman in the public spotlight to talk about having a similar experience. And how it has impacted on her and her attitudes to women. I didn't know about paying for sex, but it seems to illustrate that if you learn about relationships with women from an MRA you would have been conditioned into thinking this was acceptable.

She may well be a "drama queen" but to dismess her attempts to understand how her childhood impacted on her seems about as far from sisterhood as is possible.

I didn't know about paying for sex, but it seems to illustrate that if you learn about relationships with women from an MRA you would have been conditioned into thinking this was acceptable

Oh come off it. Allen had a mother as well and plenty of other people in her life.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lily_Allen?wprov=sfla1

I hear ys

*ya

Your post is articulate and I agree with you OP. MN loves to hate Lily Allen and she can do no right according to some here.

MN loves to hate Lily Allen..

I hadn't previously picked up on that.

I have now.

I grew up with a father who was abusive to me and my mother and also denigrated "females" (other than Pan's People on TOTP who he liked). I spent quite a bit of my childhood presenting as a boy. One of my friends thought he wanted me to be a boy.

But so many men are misogynistic I presume this is a common experience, though I've not really talked about it to anyone.

And interesting that some people can be accepted as having values that are on the whole offsenive yet still be treated with respect.

funnily enough one strong character can strongly influence A child especially if others around are complicit. We should be happy and supportive when adults start to question themselves and the things they learnt as children surely?

Given my childhood I hated and was frightened of men but despised women because I believed they were weak
I can see how Lily Allen has made many poor decisions and missteps

I dislike the conversation where we say anyone is playing a victim. Batting off criticism of that by mentioning her mother does not acknowledge the dynamics of her life. I have observed Lily and wondered all of what is underneath these behaviours
I don’t think she has had or is having an easy time in her head.

I'm with you OP.

Excuses, excuses, excuses. Lily Allen was a silly little girl with a very marginal talent which an extraordinary combination of good luck and the people her mother and father knew allowed her to exploit beyond any recognition it deserved.

She has grown into a silly woman lacking any self- awareness beyond whinging about her father.

As for not wanting to be a woman? Her trademark look was a prom dress.

I don’t think she had much of a relationship with her father growing up and her mother also worked long hours.

But additionally she was sexually assaulted by a record label person and has had a stalker for several years who broke into her house at one point. She has said the police didn’t take it seriously for a long time.

Also she had a stillbirth. I feel there’s a lot gone on in her life (have just listened to a podcast with her, which is why I know so much). I am not condoning her use of prostitutes.

Do I think Lilly Allen is a bit of an idiot?
Yes.
Do I think having Keith Allen as a father has caused her difficulties due to his attitude to women?
Yes.
However, Lilly Allen is an adult and needs to take responsibility for her own actions. The reason she's so well known is her father. Her amazing ability to put her foot in her mouth is all her own.

Can't add to what you said Cigars, it perfectly sums up my view.

Yes, MN harpies don't like Lily Allen. They see her upbringing as one of preferrment, monied, posh. They don't seem to be able to see that her public persona, unpleasant, self absorbed, ever changing as it is, could be the result of a fractured, unpleasant, damaging set of experiences.

No, she is pretty, has a modicum of talent, has money and doesn't seem to give two fucks what starngers think about her - oh, and she uses the media as part of her self adminstered therapy!

All of which only makes me grateful that I am not her! I'd not want to deal with the issues she has and have no idea what kind of person they would make me!