Feminism and breastfeeding

[SnuggyBuggy]

Just curious as to people's opinions here as I haven't seen these two things discussed a lot. Is promoting breastfeeding compatible with being a feminist?

Exactly. Based onyour personal experience, in which* breastfeedingwasn'tbest for you, you seem to be refusing to accept that breastfeeding is - or can be - beneficial to many mothers*

I have said absolutely nothing of the sort AnotherEmma. You seem extremely defensive.

I think there is this emerging feminist position that seems really focused on couples or parents having a strict 50:50 division of all labour as the ideal. I don't think this is always practical or desirable. Sharing the load is good but it should be shared in a way that works best and for many families mum doing 100% of the feeds for a short proportion of the child's life and dad making up the difference with other labour is perfectly fine.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF

Are you interested in the intense pressure put on middle class mothers to breast feed?

No

Why not? Isn't that part of the politics around breastfeeding?

“I'm interested, as I think some others here are, in breastfeeding (and motherhood) from a social and cultural perspective, as well as a public health issue at a population level.”

Yep- me too.

SnuggyBuggy

Yes I have noticed that as well, and I don't think its really very helpful.

I think a lot of young women are rather shocked when they become mothers, at how confining it is. In many ways more mentally even than physically. Breastfeeding can be part of that. The reaction is often to back away from it, and also to feel resentful that fathers don't have quite the same experience. Some of the tendency to push for things like parental leave being divided 50-50 comes out of that I suspect.

Interesting thread and lots of comments chime with my recent thoughts.

Sharing the load is good but it should be shared in a way that works best and for many families mum doing 100% of the feeds for a short proportion of the child's life and dad making up the difference with other labour is perfectly fine.

My husband has two DC who weren’t bf, I don’t think he was, and he didn’t know much about it but was positive about me doing it and has since found out loads, thinks it’s brilliant and has made it as easy as possible for me to focus on feeding our DD by him taking on much more in terms of feeding me and keeping the house ticking over. We’ve always been equal in our household and it was me who found it an adjustment to “doing nothing” for hours on end when actually I’ve been giving our baby everything she needs to grow and thrive. I’ve embraced it now! But it was him telling me he was making dinner, he’d sorted the washing, changed the bed, ordered a shop etc and to remember I was feeding the baby all day, which was the most important job so to stop bloody fretting.

Because his other two were ff and he has happy memories of feeding them I think he had wondered how different it would be if I bf but it’s literally the only thing he doesn’t do and he does some things with her I don’t do - eg has a shower with her - and I struggle to understand the argument you hear sometimes that people choose to ff “so dad doesn’t feel left out”, so he can bond with the baby, so it’s equal. Parenting feels equal for us, it feels fair, we’re each doing what feels right and I don’t know if that’s normal or lucky.

I’ve found bf hugely positive and will carry on for as long as DD and I want to. My mum and nearly all my friends bf so it was normal. I didn’t assume I’d be able to but I wanted to and while it wasn’t easy to start with we were lucky with excellent help in the hospital and from midwives since and I do it without thinking now, relishing hours on the sofa. In some ways I’ve never felt more useful. And after feeling my body had failed me after a bunch of miscarriages and a less than ideal delivery I feel like every part of me is working as it should and doing its job well which has meant a lot to me.

Interesting points, everyone.

I think there is this emerging feminist position that seems really focused on couples or parents having a strict 50:50 division of all labour as the ideal*

I don't believe there is actually any such thing at all (though you may see such notions cited as MRA straw men) and that what you suggest:

I don't think this is always practical or desirable. Sharing the load is good but it should be shared in a way that works best and for many families mum doing 100% of the feeds for a short proportion of the child's life and dad making up the difference with other labour is perfectly fine.

Is much more what feminists are actually wanting.

Even apart from feeding etc, in any partnership each will have different strengths and it's ridiculous not to split labour accordingly. Just so long as one partner doesn't somehow seem to end up with a disproportionate amount of the tedious tasks.

I’m not sure I understand the question. Can you not be a strong woman who breastfeeds?

@ErrolTheDragon

Obviously can't comment on MRAs but without wanting to go down the TAAT route I've seen this attitude on threads about childcare, SAHPs, extended family wanting access to young babies, custody, school runs, childcare as well as the more relevant issues of feeding and getting up in the night.

I think the idea PP have mentioned of teaching lactation in school is an excellent one. Young people could then learn about the physiology in a context that isn't bf vs ff, because that wouldn't be a choice facing them. Many of the problems women face establishing bf are to do with not understanding the physiology- for example, not realising that the body makes more milk in response to the baby feeding more, or that bm is very digestible so feeds are naturally more frequent.

It astonishes me really that women are content to think 'well I'll try and bf' when bf is a normal function, like digesting food or gestating a baby. Yes, sometimes these functions don't work smoothly, but we don't all start from a position of thinking- hmm, big meal coming up, I HOPE I'll be able to digest it.

Also, in relation to biology, why do women go along with the 'bovine' adjective for bf? ALL mammals bf, we just as much like lions or dolphins or otters or gazelles as we are like cows when we nourish our young.

I hated breastfeeding with a passion. And the expectation placed upon me was so heavy that my aversion to it made me so depressed that I was sectioned.

I thinks it’s a feminist issue in that breast and formula feeding should both be respected as valid choices for women, in the same way other choices are.

Just from my own experience, I found the unrelenting exhaustion of it to be the most miserable time of my entire life. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that my DH sharing bottle formula feeding was crucial for us as a family.

Breastfeeding my Velcro baby gave me lots of time to read up on and learn about feminism so from that point of view it was a positive feminist act. Having bottlefed my eldest because an illness meant I produced no milk, I felt hugely empowered with my youngest when I was able to. For the first time in decades I had nothing but awe and wonder at what my female body could do. It was a choice only I could make and it was a success only I could celebrate. I had full autonomy over what I did with my body. I could choose to breastfeed or to not breastfeed. For me it was the ultimate feminist act.

Equality doesn’t mean everything has to be the same and our differences in biology should be celebrated and accepted (while they are still said to exist)

Fascinating thread - I’ve thought about this a lot but not articulated it.

pregnancy and breastfeeding are often the moment a woman realises the real difference in their life from that of a man. Whether that’s a difference to be celebrated and held in respect - or one whose consequences feel like a drudge and an oppression are decided by so many factors around the woman.

I had twins as my 2nd and 3rd DCs. I’d already had the experience of breastfeeding and come out the other side - and for me that was the least scary part of having two babies. There’s no doubt that breastfeeding twins would have been almost impossible without support - from quite a wide selection of family. Having twins compound the effects of motherhood on female self image by more than two. Child costs can’t be sucked up if you have three under three - like it can win one child. Life actually collapses if you try to live it as the ‘having everything’ Woman of folklore. It’s possible to have a career as well, but it’s fuckimg difficult. I’ve never been able to pick my way thought the guilt and self doubt.

I remember feeling incredibly
Offended and writing to Miriam Stoppard when she wrote an article about encouraging her DIL to stop BFing her twins because she was so obviously exhausted. Not sure what I think about that now (10 years later) but it made me super angry at the time - because I was in the eye of that storm and if I’d had to prepare millions of bottles it would have been even harder.

Are you interested in the intense pressure put on middle class mothers to breast feed?

I think middle class mothers have always put pressure on themselves to be a 'good mother' however you define that. I remember my Mum telling me she thought because she was a teacher she'd be good at being a mother and it was a shock how much harder she found it. I suspect the culture shock of maternity is even greater these days when educated women are more likely to live away from their families and have children much later than their mothers did and have more sucessful careers to give up. I think for some women the shock of maternity will focus on breastfeeding and the issues they had with it, conversely for some breastfeeding will be the one thing they feel they do right and it will be the harbour in the storm.

I do agree that not being able to breastfeed after all the pressure I felt under at the time would have been a very traumatic experience. There was a lady at my NCT who had to use formula top ups for a time which she found very upsetting as she wanted to EBF.

I think there are 2 separate questions, should we as a society promote breastfeeding and how should we go about promoting it. I don't know if turning formula into some sort of taboo is a good idea and nor is glossing over the challenges of BF because it might put people off. Informed decision making is important.

Oh god let’s not start the ff vs bfing debate

I agree snuggy. I’d like to see the nhs give more support to formula feeders and info about formula. We are in a situation where most of the information about formulas and preparation comes from the formula industry. Clearly this means women don’t get proper impartial advice. I still see it promoted often in MN that it’s ok to make up bottles with cool water. Brand names are talked about like there’s a difference between them (other than price). The pricing of formula and claims made on packaging is a still a complete scandal, especially when many people end up with no choice but to buy it. I’ve always thought that they get away with this because it’s a product marketed to women, and obviously the end consumer has no voice.

Unless things have changed dramatically I don't know where Snuggy is getting the idea bf is not being promoted.

As for formula being taboo my health visitor refused to give any advice about how to move to ff. Turning formula in to a taboo is not a good idea - unless of course you (general you) think guilt tripping women who don't want to or can't bf is desirable.

I don't want to argue BF vs FF, that can be done elsewhere and it does sort of seem like those debates try to compel people to see the two as equal if only to spare people's feelings which isn't helpful.

It's more that these two things both exist and I think we should question how they should be regarded by society and what sort of information, advice and promotion pregnant and post partum women should be given.

I think BF should be seen as the norm but the way its promoted can feel at bit patriarchal in a kind of do as we say because we know best. I wonder if framing it as all mothers have the right to breastfeed and be supported rather than all mothers should breastfeed would be better.

“Turning formula in to a taboo is not a good idea - unless of course you (general you) think guilt tripping women who don't want to or can't bf is desirable.”

I really was hoping that this was going to be a discussion about the politics and philosophy of bf and mothering as a feminist issue, so I have tried not to engage in the anecdotage. But seriously? Formula feeding is taboo? When the vast majority of babies in the U.K. are ff? When every single thread about baby feeding on Mumsnet-Mumsnet turns into “bf is incredibly difficult, painful, restrictive, bovine and many women can’t do it and it’s pointless anyway” and women who have giving their experiences apologetically, talking about how lucky they are because they know that otherwise they’ll be accused of being smug and causing distress to formula feeders? If there is a taboo it’s around the fact that in countries with proper support, over 90% of women successfully bf.

Not wanting to is a perfectly good reason for not bf. Absolutely fine. No questions asked. Not being physically able to, apart from in a few specific medical and medication related cases is a cop out by a system which doesn’t provide enough support and a society that regards bf as an anomaly.

Well said!