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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jeremy Hunt believes abortion limit should be 12 weeks

95 replies

Namechange1990x · 09/06/2019 13:04

Jeremy Hunt is trying to be the next Tory leader, is on national TV declaring abortion limit should be 12 weeks in his opinion. God help us if he’s elected.

Aren’t there more important things to prioritise than policing women’s bodies?

twitter.com/ridgeonsunday/status/1137648043904385025?s=12

OP posts:
Grimbles · 10/06/2019 10:20

From what I understand, at a certain stage of pregnancy an abortion is done by early inducement of labour. The women going through this are fully aware that their baby may be born alive but will die shortly afterwards. They are given the chance to hold their baby and say their good byes and have footprints made.

They are going through an awful ordeal and it really boils my piss when people start spouting off misinformed half truths about it and casting judgements.

safariboot · 10/06/2019 10:29

JH only needs to convince the C ntservative party at the moment but he then needs to go on to convince the public.

Except legally he doesn't. Whoever the Conservative Party choose as their next leader gets to be PM until 2022. An election can only happen if MPs vote for it. Considering how calling an election went for May, and the rise of the Brexit party, I doubt the new PM or Parliament will be in a hurry to have an early election.

RuffleCrow · 10/06/2019 10:30

I'll listen to his opinion on abortion when he's 12 weeks pregnant.

NicoAndTheNiners · 10/06/2019 10:31

Did I read somewhere ages ago that he's quite religious?

And he believes in homeopathy?

Muststopfaffing · 10/06/2019 10:31

It would be wonderful if increased access and education about contraception meant there were fewer terminations. And of course that includes men taking responsibility for helping to prevent pregnancies they don’t want to have to
Jeremy Hunt presided over such huge cuts to health and social care that access to sexual health clinics and GP services where contraception is provided, including emergency contraception, that women are routinely waiting longer for appointments for contraception, fewer appointments are available and waiting times for terminations inevitably increases.

TemporaryPermanent · 10/06/2019 15:51

'personally for me 12 weeks is a fair limit'

Oh great that you know that about your own views and your own body. Crack on.

And may you never be faced with the situations which result in later abortions being needed.

Dervel · 10/06/2019 16:21

Hmmm colour me cynical but I think he knows there is zero chance of this ever becoming law. This is a ploy to appeal to the republican negotiators in a US/UK trade deal.

He has a public statement on record he can point to, safe in the knowledge this will never become law.

ChewbaccaHutchinsCool · 10/06/2019 16:42

Says the cunt with a cock.

ChattyLion · 10/06/2019 20:43

Still shifty as, and I can’t believe Amber Rudd would support him.

BBC news: Tory leadership: Hunt rules out change to abortion law
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48579890

Charley50 · 10/06/2019 21:09

So many things seem to be going backwards at the moment. Some men seem to see the Handmaid's Tale as a manifesto, rather than a horror story.
Who the fuck do these men think they are? Sorry I'm not very articulate on this topic, i find it terrifying how women's rights are being abused.

Charley50 · 10/06/2019 21:18

Dervel - I think you're right that it's a way of schmoozing the US.

drogon1 · 10/06/2019 21:39

I remember yonks ago DP heard Jeremy Hunt's name on the radio and laughing at the rhyme he immaturely sang "Jeremy Hunt is a cunt" in a little happy jingle to himself.

I'm starting to think he had a point.

Idlejane · 11/06/2019 01:09

Then I suggest he doesn't bloody have one.
Idiot

Orchidoptic · 11/06/2019 03:03

Times reckons Tory women back his campaign for leadership.

TheAngryLlama · 11/06/2019 06:49

This one doesn’t
Disappointed in amber she shouldn’t be backing the greasy little turd

hazandduck · 11/06/2019 07:45

@ChattyLion spot on first post. Completely agree with you.

In another scenario, my DSis still had periods for the first couple of months of both pregnancies. Because she found out so late, her ‘12 week’ scans usually revealed her to be 16 weeks. Her second child she found out about the day her husband told her he was leaving her for someone else. She, quite rightly, did not want to be pregnant with his child, tied to him closely for another year at least at a time when she had to deal with heartbreak, look after the toddler she had and sort all the other shit a divorce entails.

There are so many different situations that can arise when a woman is pregnant, this MAN will never know how it feels, I don’t understand why this is even up for discussion.

9toenails · 11/06/2019 09:10

NeatFreakMama: ... a serious moral issue for men and women to weigh in on ...

Surely. And like all moral issues, there is a right and wrong; this is not a matter of taste.

The right? A woman has the right to decide regarding her own body. That is each îndividual woman, note; it would be a serious moral error to think women in general could decide on behalf of any individual whether or not that individual can or cannot herself decide to have an abortion, at any time and for any reason.

Hunt, a man, gets this wrong. Some women do too. The moral issue still determines a woman's right to decide for herself. Men can work this out too but sometimes fail to do so.

NeatFreakMama, you say, I don’t understand this ‘women’s body’ argument. I think you are right; you do not understand.

Sorry for weighing in as a man.

NasiGoreng · 11/06/2019 13:20

After reading and contributing to this thread I inadvertently referred to Jeremy as Jeremy *unt in front of my 9 year old last night. Apparently he now knows what the really bad C word is thanks to me.

Dervel · 11/06/2019 14:30

@9toenails actually this is the problem there is no rational proof for secular ethics. Most of what we define as “moral” is culturally subjective. Obviously religious folks have a higher power they can hand a moral/ethical system on.

Honestly to me abortion as a moral/ethical debate is a bloody nightmare, precisely because there is no objectively “right” answer. I believe (subjectively) that all life is sacred, but on the other hand that an individual liberty is also sacred.

Thusly I think it’s essential people should be free to work it out for themselves. Abortion doesn’t sit entirely well with me, but then again enforcing my preference on other people sits equally uncomfortably.

9toenails · 12/06/2019 14:32

Dervel this is only indirectly relevant to the original topic of the thread, but I would like to respond -- in any case, direct engagement seems more-or-less played-out by now.

So, anyway, I would like to advocate a rather more optimistic view of secular ethics than you express.

As you say, Dervel, ' there is no rational proof for secular ethics '. This might seem less of a problem, though, if we consider (which is true) that there is likewise no rational proof for ( secular !) physics ... or even for what has often seemed the epitome of certain knowledge, mathematics.

Standard axioms for maths (Zermelo-Frankael or equivalent, say, with or without the Axiom of Choice) admit of no 'rational proof'. Do we, should we, then worry about maths being 'merely subjective' in the way some people worry about morality and ethics being so? Is maths culturally subjective? Well, possibly, in a way, yes of course, it has to be. How big a problem is this, though?

Fine, there is in fact less disagreement about maths than there is about morality. But turn this around: the existence of disagreement entails at least an assumption of there being a right and wrong. Remember ' de gustibus non disputandum ' -- there is no (there cannot be) argument about taste; morality is not just a matter of taste.

More: your reference to religion allowing a basis for morals lacking in secular thought, although very much a 20th century theme (in Nietzsche, for instance), is not as clear cut as it might seem. OK, I know some Nietzsche scholars and acolytes sometimes throw a bone or two to the dogs of Divine Command Theory, but really we all should have had second thoughts about religion supplying objectivity to ethics and morality at least since Plato's challenge in the Euthyphro. (A search on 'Euthyphro dilemma' will fill in here -- choose your source carefully!)

This is all either too much or not enough. I did want to suggest, though, Dervel, regarding your pessimism about secular ethics and morality, and associated problems around objectivity and reasons, that such pessimism is misplaced.

Derek Parfit wrote, in epitaph to his Reasons and Persons,
Non-Religious Ethics is at a very early stage. We cannot yet predict whether, as in Mathematics, we will all reach agreement. Since we cannot know how Ethics will develop, it is not irrational to have high hopes.

This is not to say moral questions are easy. But, look: read, those who have not already, Judith Jarvis Thompson, A Defense of Abortion. Engage with her arguments; consider whether your man Hunt is likely to have done anything similar at all; wonder why such a person as Hunt expresses the opinions he does. Then ask yourself, 'Did I need " a rational proof for secular ethics " to do any of this?'

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