Semenya temporarily free to compete in 800m

[OrchidInTheSun]

As the last thread was deleted, I shall be very clearly staying within the talk guidelines.

Here's a report on the ruling: https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/athletics/caster-semenya-olympic-champion-temporarily-cleared-to-compete-without-medication-by-swiss-court-a4158461.html

It's very unclear about what it actually means though. And why this court can overrule the sports body. Anyone shed any light?

Semenya doesn’t have to take testosterone blockers at all. Semenya only has to taken them if racing in distances 400m to 1 mile against women. Semenya could race other distances against women (which I don’t agree with) or race against men without blocking the testosterone produced by Semenya’s internal testes.

Absolutely, notbad. Caster has a series of possible options, but I think caster and her sports federation find them all unpalatable because They result in fewer medals and less money and glory.

As far as I can see, if Caster insists that Caster is a woman, then why does Caster also insist on such blatant disadvantaging of women? Seems like a very male type of aggressive wish to dominate women when one has physical advantage.

BBC's 'gender and identity correspondent', Megha Mohan, once again misrepresenting CS as 'female' when the ruling showed that CS is biological male (XY, male puberty, testes):
twitter.com/meghamohan/status/1135614508473430016
Megha Mohan follows these issues very, very closely yet consistently and deliberately misrepresents the facts, and uses biased and inaccurate language. Seriously getting absolutely sick of this total and utter gaslighting BS

'other women'

To have that taken away; well it’s no wonder Caster is fighting it.

I think it's not really fair to ask individuals involved to make a decision on these things, for a host of reasons. They are likely to be self-interested of course, but also there are a lot of external pressures.

Sporting bodies seem to think that by trying to square the circle they are being more fair and kind, but in the end I don't think its true. What is best, including for the affected athletes, is to have a very clear set of rules and procedures. Ideally ones the national sporting bodies can look into early on so that you don't have instances where people are competing at the highest levels before a problem is discovered.

Just to expand on that - while it may be down to an individual wanting personal gain, I think there are very possibly other bodies involved, like the government of SA, that are really pushing the agenda. I can easily imagine them, years ago, saying, look, if you toe the line on this, we will make sure you and your family are taken care of, even if the rules decide against you. If you don't, it will be back to the village for the lot of you.

That's an impossible situation for an individual from a vulnerable background.

I'd not even put it past them to have known what the likely cause of Caster's situation was before it was officially investigated or she was told herself.

I can't know of course, but since I can't, I won't judge individuals, it is up to the rule-makers to nip this stuff in the bud and make sure that kind of exploitation can't happen.

It's not like the eastern European ladies really had a choice either, they were told what they were to do and there would have been consequences to refusing.

one of the options Caster has is to compete in the men's category for the 400 metre to 1 mile.

Wouldn't make any of the major competitions - not fast enough.

Well this is rum. It seems the IAAF was not informed of the hearing and had no opportunity to put its case:

www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/iaaf-response-swiss-federal-tribunal-dsd-regu

Very interesting link Mockers. Including:

The IAAF is convinced there are some contexts, sport being one of them, where biology has to trump identity.

The IAAF also believes the right to participate in sport does not translate to a right to self-identify into a competition category or an event, or to insist on inclusion in a preferred event, or to win in a particular event, without regard to the legitimate rules of the sport or the criteria for entry. It is legitimate for all sport in general, and for the IAAF in particular, to create a protected category for females and to base eligibility for this category on biology and not on gender identity.

I’d look to see what the cyclist has to say about this on Twitter but I’m blocked. (Can’t be bothered to look anonymously).

Good to see that the IAAF is firmly on the side of women and fairness.

The IAAF fully respects each individual's personal dignity and supports the social movement to have people accepted in society based on their chosen legal sex and/or gender identity.

However, the IAAF is convinced there are some contexts, sport being one of them, where biology has to trump identity.

The IAAF also believes the right to participate in sport does not translate to a right to self-identify into a competition category or an event

It is legitimate for all sport in general, and for the IAAF in particular, to create a protected category for females and to base eligibility for this category on biology and not on gender identity... To define the category based on something other than biology would be category defeating and would deter many girls around the world from choosing competitive and elite sport after puberty.

Very cheered by that IAAF statement

Reads like it was written by a sane person

Well I am impressed. The statement is really good. I like this:

The IAAF considers that the DSD Regulations are a necessary, reasonable and proportionate means of protecting fair and meaningful competition in elite female athletics, and the CAS agreed.

That is an excellent statement. I get the impression they're a bit pissed off

The cyclist would probably think it was 'toxic masculinity'

pjmedia.com/trending/biological-man-who-beat-women-in-cycling-complains-about-toxic-masculinity/

Wow some sanity returns. That statement is truly joyous. Sounds like it was written by a grown up

CAS is the ultimate court for sports governance cases and as an arbitration court works on the basis that all parties agree in advance to accept its findings.

The role of the Swiss Supreme Court is very limited. It cannt retry the case nor hear new evidence. It can only rule on whether the case was conducted according to CAS's own rules.

SA authorities seem to be following the Russian model of trying to undermine the authority of CAS. They may choose to follow Russia and rule that CAS has no jurisdiction over athletics in the RSA.

As ever, Semenya is being poorly advised by people who do not have their best interests at the centre of their considerations.

The consequences of a sucessful appeal would be the end of female elite sport entirely: Anyone who was legally female in their own country would be eligible to compete on production of a passport saying so.

I don't think Semenya has much choice really. If the IAAF decision stands, Caster's career is over. So may as well fight it the whole way

Everyone was on the hot sauce during the Armstrong years hence there isn't a winner in the book for those years.

Lance was collateral damage because A. He was a yank B. Be he was a cunty Yank and C. He made lots of money through cunty behaviour.

But without doubt Lance Armstrong won 7 tours according to the rules of the peloton. No one credible in cycling disputes it unless they have an axe to grind. No one wants those wins.

He cheated the rules but didn't cheat the peloton, big difference.

Can you expand on that? I don't understand cycling.

You can't award the tour de France win to the second guy after Lance as chances are they were also cheating. So to save running down the list until they found someone who wasn't, they just decided it was easier not to bother, I think.

I could talk about Lance all day but I don't want to take over this thread.

Like I said he was collateral damage for sporting political reasons. He never failed a test, because at the time he was competing the authorities didn't want him to fail.

Guys that finished in the top 10 of the Tours did fail tests but gave evidence to help bring Armstrong down and received short bans.

Well it's all politics really isnt it. So often the way in sports.

But without doubt Lance Armstrong won 7 tours according to the rules of the peloton. No one credible in cycling disputes it unless they have an axe to grind. No one wants those wins.

That’s absolute rubbish. Armstrong had access to much better doctors, people flying his blood to him, his own personal Moto man. Just because lots of people were doping doesn’t mean it was a level playing field.

And Armstrong did fail tests, but it was hidden with a retrospective TUE.

There were clean riders. Even if they were way down, they still finished and would deserve the jersey.

Semenya has deprived women of gold medals, Diamond League prize money and sponsorship that comes with being a regular winner.

"That’s absolute rubbish. Armstrong had access to much better doctors, people flying his blood to him, his own personal Moto man. Just because lots of people were doping doesn’t mean it was a level playing field.
And Armstrong did fail tests, but it was hidden with a retrospective TUE.
There were clean riders. Even if they were way down, they still finished and would deserve the jersey."

Brilliant post!
Armstrong bullied his way to his doped victories and ruined the lives od competitors who got in his way or challenged his doping - Christophe Bassons being a prime example.
I don't think that Caster should be competing in women's sport any more, and I also think that this could have been cleared up ten years ago when Caster's condition was known about.