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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Compulsory trans awareness training

175 replies

invinoveritaserum · 03/06/2019 08:16

Apparently all staff (public sector role) have to go on compulsory trans awareness training. We have already had to do online training, but this is a half day training course. It is NOT being run by in-house training, which makes me wary of who will be running it. (I should find out later this week).
I'm worried by this. I simply cannot sit there and swallow the usual woke bs. I refuse to lie about biological fact. I refuse to be called a cis woman. And yet I know I risk being called a transphobe.
Any advice as to what to do/how to get through this?

OP posts:
DpWm · 03/06/2019 11:33

(oops I didn't mean to assume anyone's gender with my "she" just then)

invinoveritaserum · 03/06/2019 11:34

Lizziesiddall yes, I think it's a good idea to record it.

OP posts:
DpWm · 03/06/2019 11:35

Oh sara so I see it's the ability to see into other people's souls thing, of course!

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 03/06/2019 11:36

Ha ha ha! No I haven't. Because I absolutely don't stereotype

You've spent most of the thread talking about a girl with a "boys haircut" in "boys clothing" and "thinking like a boy".

If this isn't stereotyping, then what is??

DpWm · 03/06/2019 11:37

Try to ask some questions OP. And record it.
Write to your management if anything comes up that is basically sexist / homophobic / conflates intersex with trans and/or is scientifically wrong.
Talk about it.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 03/06/2019 11:38

I was talking about how this girl chose to use gender stereotypes to define herself.

Actually YOU used stereotypes to define her, she isn't here, you described her has having a boys brain....

PencilsInSpace · 03/06/2019 11:40

Here's the page on their training courses:

www.transforum-manchester.co.uk/index.php/training-courses

It looks like active participation is called for, not like the 'STFU and don't get too clever' methods used by Mermaids.

The PDF leaflet on that page is informative. Your session is likely to start with 4 videos, the first of which is 'Kate Does Trans 101' which I think might be this:

But could possibly be this:

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 03/06/2019 11:41

It's not nice when it's pointed out, but maybe you do need to think a bit about it.

CharlieParley · 03/06/2019 11:51

invinoveritaserum if you can afford to put your head above the parapet, here's what I would do:

During the session, ask how their recommendations on how to treat people who identify as trans fits into your work's established safeguarding procedures.

I know someone who did this when they got public sector training on trans awareness. They couldn't answer and this person then made a complaint to their boss about the training being completely inadequate and unlawful as it violated both the law as per the EqA and conflicted with existing safeguarding procedures. The bosses agreed and did not invite the training company back for the scheduled second session.

If you have time, I would go prepared by reading the Fair Play for Women website and WPUK and others on why mixed-sex facilities don't work for women and then prepare a few questions, along the lines of why do we have to respect the feelings of males who identify as trans as trans and insist on using our facilities, but not the feelings of females who wish a space free from male violence and the male gaze.

I'd also take a printout of the letter from the lawyers on the EqA showing that we have a legally protected right to female only prpvisions and the judgement in the Asher's cake case showing that we cannot be compelled to manifest a belief we don't have (or punished if we don't).

I would also ask the trainer if they believe that females - in language and in law - have the right to define themselves in a category of their own, separately from males.

With our own sovereign spaces, our own sports, the right to organise and assemble as females, again separately from males, to address inequalities, oppression and discrimination we face as females in a male-dominated world.

Because we currently have these rights as granted in the EqA and if their training conflicts with that, your employer is paying an external company on training you not only in how to break the law, but also expecting you to submit to having your own rights as a female violated. Without protest.

You might ask about liability insurance. Specifically, if the training company delivers the usual unlawful claims about how males who identify as trans as trans have a right to use female only facilities, you could ask how your employer can get around the conditions of liability insurance that the insured must adhere to the law or else the insurance is invalidated.

You might also ask, when a female has other protected characteristics, such as disabilities, race or religion in addition to sex, how these are accounted for in their training.

Usually, they completely ignore these by presenting everything in a way that implies that gender reassignment trumps them all.

If you are not in a position where you can speak out during the training, I would definitely record it for myself as a memory aid, then go through it afterwards point by point and write a critical review showing where their training/advice/claims conflict with the law, science, empirical data etc.

Depending again on what is safe for you, I would then send my review (anonymously if necessary) to the relevant people at my work and/or women's orgs and/or the media.

But what I think you might be able to safely do in any case, is to send an open letter at work thanking them prettily for the opportunity to learn more about people protected under the gender reassignment section of the Equality Act and ask when they will organise awareness training sessions on the other protected characteristics, because you feel that you could all learn so much from understanding the needs and feelings of other disadvantaged groups. Or something like that.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/06/2019 11:58

It would be bonkers if that's what happened. But it wasn't.

Essentially, yes it is.

You decided she had something developmentally wrong with her brain because she didn’t fit into the rigid box you think she should because of her sex. She didn’t conform to your entrenched stereotypes of “girl” so you decided there was something wrong with her.

Michelleoftheresistance · 03/06/2019 12:01

Charlie that is a fantastic list. Thank you, I'm saving that one!

littlbrowndog · 03/06/2019 12:15

Charlie. Awesome

Redshoeblueshoe · 03/06/2019 12:23

Excellent post Charlie

truthisarevolutionaryact · 03/06/2019 12:33

CharlieParley

That's excellent!! Thank you.

ZebrasAreBras · 03/06/2019 12:37

I've not read the whole thread, because it was instantly derailed by someone who once taught a girl who had a boy's haircut, and would now be in their thirties.

However, OP, this is Tara Hewitt's training video, where Tara talks about fetishes and "diverse sexual appetites" in the context of trans cancer care training:

Note the lack of engagement by the (mainly women) in the room. I wish the camera could have captured their facial expressions. I would guess a cross between Shock and Confused

You have a choice: 1) sit through it biting your tongue and gritting your teeth, and get through it unscathed, or 2) raise questions, as Michael Conroy and the vicar school governor did. Note - their interventions were not well received. Not at all.

Or 3) covertly record the session.

(Please do 3) and report back.)

thenightsky · 03/06/2019 12:47

Print off Charlie's post and use it as a crib sheet during the session OP!

andyoldlabour · 03/06/2019 12:52

"She had her hair cut like a boy and always wore boy style uniform and hung out with boys exclusively."

I knew a girl like that when I started work. I used to play table tennis with her. She looked like a "tomboy". She was intelligent and didn't take any BS from anyone.
She is married with a couple of grown up children now.

insidev · 03/06/2019 12:57

Sorry, I'm on a quick lunch break and haven't read the whole thread yet, but @saraclara "All I know is that I once taught a kid (aged 12) who was biologically a girl" etc.

Seriously, your whole post might have been me (especially if you taught in south London?) I was like that from around age 8 to 20ish. I've since talked to many women online who were the same.

I just had to grow up (and then was diagnosed with autism funnily enough). I am an incredibly happy regular dull woman now, and there's every chance she is too, if that helps you?

This stuff is horrendous, it's a cult and it's damaging young people. Really it is.

invinoveritaserum · 03/06/2019 13:02

Thank you Charlie, that's a really useful list, I'm going to print it off.

OP posts:
TeacupDrama · 03/06/2019 13:20

treating people fairly does not mean agreeing with their beliefs

I am a retired dentist treating patients fairly means treating all to the best of your abilty
one of the most frequent ( as I practised in a small rural place ) was actually treating victims of domestic violence/ sexual infidelity and on a different day/ time having to treat the perpetrator / cheat
to treat muslim patients fairly you are not required to believe in Mohammed nor to treat christians fairly do you need to believe that Jesus is the son of God, you can treat people in prison fairly while hating the offence for which they are there
You can treat trans people fairly and still have the belief that biological sex is unchangeable, you can treat a women fairly without being a woman, you can treat a Polish person fairly without being Polish
for no characteristic to be treated fairly is it a requirement that you actually believe it
Why do they think people actually need to believe that a trans woman is actually either a woman or a man surely it is irrelevant to fair treatment
rights are balanced going back to Asher case there is no right to refuse service to people who you do not agree with, you can refuse to state things you don't believe in
A Muslim printer could not refuse to print business cards for an accountant because she is a Christian, however he does not need to produce banners for her saying Jesus is the Son of God

FeministCat · 03/06/2019 13:40

saraclara

You don’t have to keep talking about this girl you knew to explain what these mean without, as you claim, relying on sex stereotypes:

“boys haircut"
"boys clothing"
"thinking like a boy"
“boy’s brain”

I am sure we will be patient while you do.

When I was a teenager, androgynous looks and clothing, encouragement for girls to do whatever the “boys could” was the norm for the sexes. Boys wore eyeliner just as much as girls. How would you tell the girls from the boys?

Would you tell the girls like me who had short hair, was on the wrestling team, who refused to wear dresses, and was uncomfortable with my body going through puberty I needed to get on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to “become a boy” to “match my brain”? Would have been horrific if you did because as an adult I like being a woman and not having osteoporosis.

Do you not see the problem is with sex stereotypes (ie gender identity ideology), not us here being concerned about the gaslighting of everyone that a male body can become female, and vice versa, just because they like “girl things” or “boy things”?

ComeAndDance · 03/06/2019 13:41

for no characteristic to be treated fairly is it a requirement that you actually believe it

Well I agree with that. On a PERSONAL level, when you treat the person in front of you, it doesnt matter.
What matters is what happens AROUND the treatment. What matters is the protection of other service users and yes, in this case, this mean women.

ComeAndDance · 03/06/2019 13:47

As a general comment, I have to say Im a bit heartbroken at some of the stuff I read on here or what I see around me.
As a child, girls having short hair was ok. there wasnt such a prominence of pink and blue toys. I had an electric train and little cars to play with and no one ever commented on that.
And I played with the boys all the time

Nowdays, the girls at my dcs school all have long hair. I can count the ones with short hair on one hand.
Playing with boys is frown upon. And so is wearing the wrong type of clothing (If you look at adverts from the 1970s, you will children have a lot of very 'gender neutral' clothes such as dungarees, plain or strippy tshirt etc...).
I was hoping that things ad changed, changed enough to allow young people to be who they wanted to be wo pigeonholing (?) them. So you are a boy if you do xxx or a girl you do yyy.

It also makes me wonder how many of those characteristics you need to become a boy/girl.
Haing short hair isnt enough
Playing a boys sport like a boy int enough.
Waering trousers or 'boys' clothes isnt enough.
do you need to do all that to be told or convince people that you are a boy

FeministCat · 03/06/2019 13:50

saraclara

While at it, please take time to look up autogynephelia as it is now “transphobic” to assume those who are trans have gender dysorphia. You realize 80% of trans women never get surgery at all, and most keep their penises, right? And they can still use those penises to rape women in prison (Karen White) and tell lesbians they are genital fetishists for now wanting to sleep with them and suck their penis: them being men.

Even if they do have gender dysorphia, why is the automatic answer blockers, hormones, surgery, and more importantly, everyone else tip toeing around and pretending the delusion is real? To point where we erase female only spaces entirely? Where we aren’t allowed to talk about periods or abortions or pregnancy or any other experiences of having a female body without mentioning “not all women have uteruses” and “men can get pregnant too”?

When I had body dysmorphia, I was not encouraged in my anorexia to take diet piles, laxatives, and liposuction. It was clear I was not mentally well and that needed to be treated, not “affirmed”.

FeministCat · 03/06/2019 13:51

*not wanting to sleep with them

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