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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Compulsory trans awareness training

175 replies

invinoveritaserum · 03/06/2019 08:16

Apparently all staff (public sector role) have to go on compulsory trans awareness training. We have already had to do online training, but this is a half day training course. It is NOT being run by in-house training, which makes me wary of who will be running it. (I should find out later this week).
I'm worried by this. I simply cannot sit there and swallow the usual woke bs. I refuse to lie about biological fact. I refuse to be called a cis woman. And yet I know I risk being called a transphobe.
Any advice as to what to do/how to get through this?

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 03/06/2019 09:13

Back then there was certainly no encouragement to be trans.

That's good then. She'll have had a good chance of reaching maturity with her breasts and her fertility intact.

AlwaysComingHome · 03/06/2019 09:13

She had her hair cut like a boy

What’s a boy’s haircut?

JessicaWakefieldSV · 03/06/2019 09:13

Im talking about your brain recognising that you're the sex that your genitals define you as

Then you should have said that in the first place. This is largely a result of sexist socialisation that leads some to believe they are thinking and liking the wrong things for their sex. For those genuinely feeling in the wrong body, I think most of us would feel sympathy and hope they had therapy to help them accept their body. Much like those with eating disorders.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 03/06/2019 09:15

All I know is that I once taught a kid (aged 12) who was biologically a girl, yet dressed, and clearly thought and acted, as a boy. She was also probably the most unhappy child I ever taught.

I can entirely believe she was very unhappy, and I'm sorry about that. But what does 'thought and acted as a boy' mean? Does it mean she didn't want to have long hair, wear the girls' uniform, use makeup? Does it mean she wanted to play football instead of netball? Was she more direct, tougher than girls are habitually supposed to be?

There are so many accounts of girls like this* who had real difficulties at home, at school and in the wider community because of reactionaries with fixed views about how girls and women should behave and dress. These girls not unnaturally end up thinking 'I'm not like all the other girls, everybody keeps telling me that. I like things boys like. I wish I was a boy'. Nowadays that last bit unfortunately often becomes 'I must really be a boy' and organisations like Mermaids will tell these troubled girls that they're right, they were born in the wrong body, and can be helped to change their bodies.

But the vast majority of these girls eventually came to terms with being female and are now happy, well-adjusted women, often with children. Some of them are lesbians, others are straight, some of them have remained gender nonconforming, others now enjoy dressing up etc etc. Puberty is the crucial stage. It's hell to go through but it's a time when the brain matures as well as the body.

We shouldn't be telling girls and boys with gender issues that they were born in the wrong body. We should be telling them they're absolutely fine as they are, that gender stereotypes are harmful and should be ditched, that they can do what they like as long as it doesn't harm others. The one thing that's fixed is their biological sex. That is never going to be changed, no matter what they do to their bodies.

Ereshkigal · 03/06/2019 09:16

sara

Are you a believer in God? If not, and you're an atheist, how do you think you'd feel about compulsory religious training?

PencilsInSpace · 03/06/2019 09:17

Jozen - I've done this training course a few weeks back (also public sector). It was fine and quite interesting.

How do you know it's the same one?

'Public sector' is vast. The chances of OP's training being delivered by your colleague are miniscule.

invinoveritaserum · 03/06/2019 09:18

Jozen, this will be an external group doing the training, not a cozy chat with a colleague. Im going to ask "difficult" questions. I will probably be taking early retirement next year, and really don't care if I'm labelled difficult.

OP posts:
Jozen · 03/06/2019 09:19

*How do you know it's the same one?

'Public sector' is vast. The chances of OP's training being delivered by your colleague are miniscule.*

I was just giving my take on the training.
I'm fully aware the public sector is huge, it would be a mighty coincidence if we had the same trainer Grin

FloralBunting · 03/06/2019 09:22

Careful, wims. You appear to be disagreeing with the posters on the thread who think the indoctrination should simply be 'open mindedly' absorbed. You'll be accused of a pile on if you're not careful.

Jozen · 03/06/2019 09:22

Jozen, this will be an external group doing the training, not a cozy chat with a colleague. Im going to ask "difficult" questions. I will probably be taking early retirement next year, and really don't care if I'm labelled difficult.

I guess we were lucky then. I daresay he would not have had such "cozy chats" with other groups.
Like I say, just giving my viewpoint on it.

Thingybob · 03/06/2019 09:22

Compulsory training is being rolled out at my local NHS Trust. The reports I have heard is that the first part of the training relies on blah, blah, intersex, blah, blah, 2% of the population, common as having ginger hair etc

After an hour of pseudoscience, conflating biological conditions with being trans, everyone was too confused to ask questions even though the majority were trained nurses or other health care workers.

The simple question to ask is surely, "Are transgender people more likely to be intersex than the general population?" The answer is no and there are lots of references from GIC/GIDs clinicians stating this therefore making all the waffle totally irrelevant.

saraclara · 03/06/2019 09:22

This girl and my daughter played in the same girls' football team. On several occasions, the ref or coach of the opposing team, came over to check that the team wasn't fielding a boy. That's how boy-like she looked.

I'm an atheist, and I'd go to training on religious stuff with an open mind, too. The last school I worked at was predominantly muslim (and fundamentalist Christian African). So of course I needed to understand the culture and beliefs of both groups. Neither of which were out to convert me.

RubberTreePlant · 03/06/2019 09:24

Can you cite a deeply held belief in Biology?

OvaHere · 03/06/2019 09:25

All I know is that I once taught a kid (aged 12) who was biologically a girl, yet dressed, and clearly thought and acted, as a boy. She was also probably the most unhappy child I ever taught.

The Tavistock clinic recognise that young girls choose to present as masculine for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it can be a response to trauma including sexual abuse. As she was extremely unhappy perhaps some investigation would have been the smart thing to do rather than just assuming her brain was wrong for her body.

PencilsInSpace · 03/06/2019 09:26

It's worth reading up on the public sector equality duty - this is the legal duty that underlies equality impact assessments.

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/public-sector-equality-duty

saraclara · 03/06/2019 09:27

I've tried to answer everyone's questions calmly and logically.

Could anyone do the same and explain to me why trans training makes some of you so angry?

As I've explained that I don't believe what Muslims and fundamentalists Christians believe. But I still learned about their particular needs, in order to do my job properly and treat them with respect (as they did, me).
I'm not sure why trans training can't be seen in the same way by some people.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 03/06/2019 09:27

She was unlucky. 20 years ago my children were very young but I was dimly aware that there had been a fairly sudden fashion trend for teenage girls to have very long hair and use straighteners. This was not the case 20 years before that when I was in my teens. A girl with short hair then would not have raised an eyebrow.

ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/06/2019 09:29

*and hung out with boys exclusively.i

Apart from her all girl football team. Hmm

ILoveMaxiBondi · 03/06/2019 09:31

Could anyone do the same and explain to me why trans training makes some of you so angry?

Who is angry? You think women asking for clarification on statements about sex and gender stereotypes means they’re angry? Who has made you think like this?

RuffleCrow · 03/06/2019 09:33

Go on it armed with some scientific and legal text books. Ask some relevant questions and cut through the bullshit.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 03/06/2019 09:33

Could anyone do the same and explain to me why trans training makes some of you so angry?

Are you new here? Have you missed the discussions on the recorded training sessions which were incredibly concerning? Very recently a reverend recorded a training session, have you listened to it?

KatvonHostileExtremist · 03/06/2019 09:33

We are aware that gender dysphoria is a real and very distressing medial condition.

Almost all of us would support a person's right to express whatever "gender" they choose.

However sex based protections must be maintained. They are there for a good reason!
I hope your daughter's friend is leading a happy and fulfilled life Sara.

saraclara · 03/06/2019 09:33

@ILoveMaxiBondi at 12, she and my daughter were no longer allowed to play in mixed football teams, as they had done in previous years. I imagine that this child weighed up the pros and cons of either no longer playing her favourite sport, or mixing with girls. Though actually off the field she didn't interact with them much, if at all. I certainly don't recall seeing her have a conversation with anyone.

ChocoholicsAsylum · 03/06/2019 09:33

Unless testing for Chromosone problems... and you dont have the usual xx or xy, then I dont see how all this "born in the wrong body" actually works. If you were a girl (with a vagina) but had xy like a male usually does then youd have a point... but is this usually the case? Not as far as I know.
Also what really makes no sense is some parents now dont give their child a gender and go down as "neutral" and Im sorry but that IS wrong. They will be in general either female or male until further notice! This is in a way child abuse by denying them their sex status and how do you explain when puberty hits? Whats happening to a "non gender" child? If they picked being male but infact were female and periods start etc?

Children can pick their own gender? Children want to be dinosaurs and princesses.

Id not hate a person if they chose to change sex but they need to deal with the fact that some people wont accept it and that is actually fine! Not everyone has to join in on this and society need to stop forcing people to be in agreement and being easily offended if people differ!

I apoligize for any spelling mistakes.

PencilsInSpace · 03/06/2019 09:34

I'm not sure why trans training can't be seen in the same way by some people.

Because can you imagine how the training would go if you said you didn't believe people could change sex?

Would you be happy to do training on religion if the trainer called you a heretic or an infidel because of your atheism?

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