Imperial College London study into womb transplant for transwomen

[bettybeans]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned - I can't find it if it has - but wtf.
I have so many questions about and problems with this I don't even know where to begin.

I'm not particularly well versed on any of this stuff but surely it has to be reasonable to conclude that at some point this would always involve some sort of test guinea pig foetus. In mean, aside from the obvious point that expertise in this area should presumably focus on females who are otherwise built to do this job, how could this ever end up being an ethically or morally sound thing to do? It's so messed up.

Oh FFS

I can't say anything that wouldn't get me banned.

16 plus

16

You can't get a tattoo till your 18 ffs

The UK Womb Transplant research team hypothesise that whilst there are additional anatomical, hormonal, fertility, and obstetric complexities, modification to the surgical technique can still make the technique feasible in transgender women

a) 'additional complexities'? Yep, like having a female body.

b) Let's do the 'Barracker-application' to this statement (the new Bechedel Test barometer!). modifcation to the surgical technique can still make the technique feasible in males Only males can be transgender women. The statement is saying implanting uteri in MALES.

b) I'm not usually a fan of the 'i could identify as a table' analogy, but in this case, just because it's an aspiration, why does it have to be an ambition?

If in certain academic spaces speculation escalates into the possibility of performing uterine transplants into robots should we as a society ethically chase that speculation to its end goal? Speculation of human uterine transplants into men (same thing as the 1st, just different words)?

Speculation of human uterine transplants into...etc etc?

Whose 'speculation' are we entertaining here, and why?

Yes, this subject has come up before!

Where does the original screenshot come from? Is there a link?

Would a survey like this have to pass an ethics panel, or is it too early for that?

Because if a panel gave this the green light... well, what Redshoeblueshoe said.

First do no harm. First ask....well it's not the babies they're asking is it. Ffs

No such thing as 'womb transplants for transwomen'. This study is about about facilitating womb implants for men. Manipulation of language is the primary strategy for advancing this misogynist insanity.

Couldn't tell you original source. Spotted on Twitter here: twitter.com/bailey6117/status/1133431405038460929?s=21

textbook example of recruitment bias

I don't know what space the baby would grow into (assuming a gazillion other things are solved first). Their hips aren't wide enough their spines don't have the right curve. All the drugs they'd have to be given would be going straight into the foetus.

Don't even know why I'm discussing it. It's too nuts.

Aha, wait, here we go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/btn6jk/whowantssawomb/

I read this research paper last month and, frankly, found it too depressing to share.

obgyn.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/1471-0528.15438

I assumed it was just fantasy land what-iffery but apparently not.

Highlights include:

Legally, under the Equality Act (2010) transgender people are afforded explicit protection from both direct and indirect forms of discrimination through the characterisation of ‘gender reassignment’ as a protected characteristic. As such, M2F transgender women cannot be subjected to discrimination on the basis of this characteristic. Subsequently, if UTx becomes an established treatment option for women with AUFI [Absolute Uterine Factor Infertility], UK and EU legislation would make it legally impermissible to refuse to perform UTx in transgender women solely because of their gender identity.

Because men who identify as women have AUFI, obviously. Totally reasonably diagnosis to give someone born male.

Also, 10 points for whoever called it regarding the push to get girls transitioning:

Despite a number of anatomical, hormonal, fertility, and obstetric considerations that require consideration, there is no overwhelming clinical argument against performing UTx as part of GRS. However, the increased radicality associated with the retrieval operation, including a longer vaginal cuff and more extensive ligamentous dissection, potentially necessitates the use of deceased donors. Alternatively, F2M transgender men may offer an alternative donor pool should they accept the increased risk compared with standard hysterectomy.

Aaaaand finally:

The reproductive aspirations of M2F transgender women deserve equal consideration to those assigned female at birth

That's right, while actual women are playing the postcode lottery for IVF, men with fully functioning reproductive systems are able to voluntarily give up their fertility and then demand instead access to female assisted fertility options.

...Now you see why I was too cross to share it before!

Here is the full paper:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/

Note this particularly creepy bit at the end:

However, the increased radicality associated with the retrieval operation, including a longer vaginal cuff and more extensive ligamentous dissection, potentially necessitates the use of deceased donors. Alternatively, F2M transgender men may offer an alternative donor pool should they accept the increased risk compared with standard hysterectomy.

The authors smoothly move from acknowledging that women would have to be radically butchered in order for their reproductive organs to be harvested for use in men, such that it would not be ethical to use live donors... but oh look! Luckily we do have a potential population of live women to do this radical and dangerous organ harvesting on after all. All those teenage girls and young women who now make up some 80-90 percent of patients presenting at 'gender clinics'.

And such heartening concern for any baby... oh wait!

ByGrabs

That Reddit thread comments. I wouldn't usually cross-reference another forum but the excitement, whether this is real or not, by a small section of people with dysphoria, or something else equally concerning, that makes them override any considerations for the actual child that they seem to have forgotten about, in amongst the thrill of organ transplant is shocking.

Im a bit old - but if I was 20 years younger Id love to. I might still register to bump up the interest level tho. Additionally Id guess that the egg in the womb could be fertilised by our own frozen sperm. What an ultra win that is. A win, for whom?

I wonder what mental gymnastics TERFs are gonna use to say we aren't Real Women™ now? Is that your end goal? To prove you are a 'real woman'?

Lots of excited speculation that they'd just be having a c-section so no worries about having to have any other genital surgery.

Do these people have any idea about the realities of pregnancy and childbirth?

It would be laughable, if these thoughts and ideas weren't all over a good proportion of social media right now.

No just no for a 101 reasons.

This is the kind of thing that would put women off becoming organ donors.

that reddit thread .... holy shit.

You know what, let 19y old blokes have 8lb babies crammed into their abdomens. This would be the quickest fad known to transwomen when they realised the reality. Bonkers.

"Im a trans woman, but im 13.5 years old, so sorry :) "

" Awesome would love to take part and hopefully have a womb one day "
Er, dont you mean legal and moral responsibility for the well-being of a human child?

I didn't see the words "baby" or "child" used once on that thread, just a fresh level of undiluted narcissism. All the talk of immunosuppressants and how that'd be a risk they were willing to take - but actual pregnant women can't even have a sip of wine or an aspirin without people hand-wringing over the risk. Absolutely sick.

On the plus side, before this even had a shot at happening we'll be well on our way to the promised extinction event. Time to ditch the recycling and just ride it out.

Just shows how divorced this movement is from actual female reality. No fucking clue, any of them. Whatever they think they're identifying as, it isn't us.

Whatever they think they're identifying as, it isn't us

So much this.

exactly, what 19y old woman wants to be pregnant?