Can we stop being obedient soon, or will this coercion continue for evermore?

[theOtherPamAyres]

I know that Mumsnet moderators are hot on keeping respectful debate and for that reason does not allow misgendering, certain terms, and the like. It's their site and they make the rules and I respect that. This topic isn't about Mumsnet, it's about the growing confidence of feminists to refuse to use the terms and language of gender.

Karen Ingala Smith, speaking to the Womens Select Committee, showed how it could be done. As a result of the clarity of her language, she was able to cut through the nonsense and make her points forcefully. In contrast, Janet from Womens Aid, with her convoluted language about gender, sounded confused and muddle-headed.

When we are forced to use words like 'transwoman' and 'she' - for fear of prosecution, civil actions, job losses, imprisonment for contempt of court, exclusion, abuse and physical assaults - we have helped to normalise transgenderism. In effect, we are saying that a man can be a woman.

I believe that we can no longer support Trans Rights by default, by caving in and going with the flow. At some stage we have to assert the right to use our own terms - because we can't wait for legal precedents and government reviews. The more refusniks and recusants there are, the more confidence will grow.

What tips and tricks of language did you start using when you could no longer kowtow to the demand for obedience?
How did you write or speak about people/men/women who identify as trans? (Did you see what I did there?)

Non binary is a ridiculous statement of a non fact.

Person A asserts:
"I am non binary"

Person B replies:
"You don't behave or dress stereotypically male or female then"

Person A says:
"Er yeah but no but"
"Whatever, I can do what I like"

Person B rolls eyes, walks away and says nothing.

Op “no sex “ doesn’t make sense.
Also a lot of the NB people I see written about feel they have aspects of both genders ( like everyone else doh) rather than neither.
(There is a different word for “no gender”, but i can’t remember what stupid made up thing it is, possibly Agender)
You are conflating sex and gender norms, using “sex “ when you mean gender norms, which is to be avoided , given that this is the thing we most need to clarify.

Person A asserts:
"I am non binary"

Person B replies:
"That's nice, dear."

Person A asserts:
"I am non binary"

Person B replies:
"ODFO, dear."

Jacky

Person A asserts:
"I am non binary"

Person B replies:
"I thought there were only two people like that"

Non-binary (or gender free or whatevs) is surely easiest explained as old-skool "unisex"?

I'm guessing some sort of klaxon would go off somewhere if someone suggested just using the quite predictable "special snowflake"...

Must be my feminine socialisation showing

a: "I'm non binary"

B: "01001001 00100000 01100100 01101111 01101110 00100111 01110100 00100000 01100111 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100110 01110101 01100011 01101011"

😋

I used to be non-binary, but now I can't make up my mind.

Badoom-cha!

Unisex!
That's the perfect word.

It's been there all along and I just forgot all about it.
And you can actually buy the clothes too.

Unisex!

Now that's more like it. I could also use 'mixed sex'!

For me, non-binary is trans-speak and Queer Theory. I'm disobedient. I don't want to speak trans anymore.

For the commentators that are giving me feedback and saying that I am confusing 'sex' and 'gender' - what can I say?

I don't believe in gender, gender identity, gender recognition or transgender. I'm looking for alternative words that do not include the word 'gender'. Can you help?

No-one is unisex though?
There are two sexes.

Deciding to be non-binary is like deciding to become a goth, a punk etc
Great, but it should not require society to make adaptions.

Non-binary = non-sense.

Non-Binary is also another umbrella term (appaz) under which there are all of the other queer 'genders'

Genderfluid- Moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity
Agender- Not identifying with any gender. Sometimes referred to as being genderless or gendervoid
Bigender- Identifying as two genders, commonly (but not exclusively) male and female. Sometimes you feel like both genders at the same time and sometimes you fluctuate.
Polygender- When you identify with multiple genders at once. Sometimes referred to as multigender.
Neutrois- When you identify as agender, neither male nor female, and/or genderless
Gender Apathetic- When you really do not identify nor care about any particular gender. You are fine passing off as whatever and you really do not have an opinion towards your own gender.
Androgyne- This term overlaps a lot between gender identification and presentation. It can be used to describe others and as an identification. This term is used to describe people who are neither male nor female or are both male and female. Basically anyone who does not fit into a binary gender category.
Intergender- Somebody who's gender is somewhere between male and female
Demigender- When you feel as if you are one part a defined gender and one or more parts an undefined gender. Terms can include demigirl, demiboy, demiagender, ect.
Greygender- Somebody with a weak gender identification of themselves
Aporagender- Somebody with a strong gender identification of themselves that is non-binary
Maverique- A non-binary gender that exists outside of the orthodox social bounds of gender
Novigender- A gender that is super complex and impossible to describe in a single term etc etc etc etc

OP i agree with you on gender, which is why I stick to someone’s sex.

On a cheerful note. I just popped onto Somerville’s thread and read this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3389169-I-m-thinking-of-applying-for-an-opportunity-on-the-basis-of-being-non-binary

Sevigny Mon 27-May-19 12:21:26

Just bumping this with an update from Somerville1234.

“I got into the final for the award, but didn’t win. However, my workplace also announced that the next time they run the award they will be opening it up to everyone with a protected characteristic, which is the victory I wanted.
An even bigger victory, that I didn’t expect or anticipate, is that the authentic genderfree identity, and it’s flag 🏁, has exploded across social media and even more importantly real life. I’ve now contacted every company who provide goods or services to my household, updating my details to confirm my genderfree, sex based, identity. Many people respond by saying “oh I think I’m genderfree too! I don’t sense an innate identity either!” Many other genderfree women are reporting the same - brava, all of you!”

Screen grab from Facebook, where Terf Is A Slur are sharing Barracker’s post (and I doubt they’re the only ones). 10 shares & 82 likes in its first 5 hours.

Stealing this from someone else:

Nobendigender = not being able to get up off the floor once sitting/lying down

Nobendigender = not being able to get up off the floor once sitting/lying down

Oh God, this is me today. Definitely overdid things yesterday.

Finding 'correct' ways to talk about stuff that's built on a bed of sand is wasted time and it won't get rid of the oppressive hierarchy of gender.

Definitely. But highlighting the absurdity of it with terms like ’nobendigender’ has to be a good thing!

Why are you all even thinking of alternatives.

Barracker, in the Medium article, talked about 'translating' from trans-speak back to reality. Using real words instead of queer theory terms and compelled language, we highlight the dangers and risks to ourselves and the fake 'science' behind gender terms.

They may sound crazy (mixed sex! ) and that's because they are. Is it any wonder that queer theory needs terms like 'non binary' to maintain the facade?

Stonewall and other lobbyists wanted 'non binary' on the Census for Scotland. Only Joan McAlpine could put an end to that nonsense with her questions - no else saw a problem. They might have seen the problem if the words unisex/mixed sex had been put before them. It would have been immediately obvious that the lobbyists were being ridiculous.

How do you stop a word like non-binary creeping into public policy, like the census, if you don't have your own words for it?