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Women are happier without children or a spouse - Guardian article

74 replies

GraceMarks · 25/05/2019 16:11

Sorry for the Guardian link, but:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert

Thoughts? I'm single and childless, and I think it's easier to be happy about that if it's a choice you've made for yourself, and not because you just didn't find anyone you wanted to settle down and start a family with.

But I find it interesting that studies seem to consistently conclude that women are better off being unmarried. On the Relationships board, women are always being urged to get married before they have children because otherwise they'll be left with no protection in the event of a split. Why then are we obliged to choose between happiness and security, assuming the studies are true?

As a side note, I quite like the sound of Paul Dolan!

OP posts:
NeurotrashWarrior · 25/05/2019 16:59

Well I was this afternoon when everyone buggered off and let me wallow in snot by myself..

EmpressLesbianInChair · 25/05/2019 17:00

I definitely am.

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 25/05/2019 17:04

I reckon it's probably being in a settled long term relationship that has that effect, rather than marriage per se - and if you're in one of those already then you might as well get married for the security!

DontFearTheReaper · 25/05/2019 17:05

“Married people are happier than other population sub-groups but only when their spouse is in the room when they’re asked how happy they are. When the spouse is not present: fucking miserable,” he said.

Grin

I’m happy, but I’ve never been married or had children so I can’t compare between them.

PickleC · 25/05/2019 17:10

I guess it can be tricky to work out what you want compared to what society will have told you what you want since birth. And it will also depend on the lives of those around you. Childless and all your friends have families will be harder than a range of single and coupled up mates, some without kids who still have that added freedom to go out or on holiday or whatever

I would never ask anyone about if they wanted children, why havent you had them and so on but have heard many others doing that. May be fine if they made an active choice but I know people where its not what they would have chosen.

Binting · 25/05/2019 17:30

I think age plays a part. I thought I wanted marriage and children in my 20’s and 30’s and seeing my friends settle down made wonder what was wrong with me (A: absolutely nothing!). I knew I didn’t want children after 40 but then had to contend with partners thinking that I must be on a last ditch mission to conceive which was frustrating. Now in my 50’s (and in menopause) I don’t have to worry about any of that and feel a lot freer somehow. I’m also happy being single but that wasn’t always the case when I was younger.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/05/2019 17:36

I was much happier when I was married but that was because I was very happily married until the inconsiderate bugger went and died on me.

It's a bit tricky to assess that kind of thing. So many variables. I wouldn't be surprised if women who've chosen their path in life are happier than those who have not.

NotTerfNorCis · 25/05/2019 17:37

I'm in a relationship but not married, and that suits me. I like my freedom.

IcedPurple · 25/05/2019 17:59

Tell us something we don't know!

It's been shown time and again that happiness levels at best remain static or decrease for women after marriage, but the opposite is true for men.

But I find it interesting that studies seem to consistently conclude that women are better off being unmarried.

I think this is because women tend to do most of the 'work' in relationships, which can get tiresome pretty quickly. Women are also considerably less likely than men to seek remarriage following divorce, though they may choose to be in a relationship with a man.

On the Relationships board, women are always being urged to get married before they have children because otherwise they'll be left with no protection in the event of a split

This is very good advice though, not because of 'happiness' but because of financial security. Should you split with a partner who is also the father of your child(ren) then you are in a much more precarious position if you are not married.

Although like you, I'm also happily childfree and single, I too would definitely advise a woman contemplating motherhood to marry the would-be father first. For the same reason I'd advice them to think long and hard before giving up their jobs, and hence their financial independence.

FeministCat · 25/05/2019 19:02

Marriage was never important to me, but I am happily married. I think though it worked out for me as I was very picky about who I married and didn’t rush into it or settle. My husband is a great partner and a true friend and I feel very blessed (in a non-religious kind of way).

I also think I see far more miserable marriages than happy ones - I know other women who are happily married for sure but so many many more ones who at best have “mediocre”. So yes, if we are looking at the overall trend...I think a lot of women may be unhappier married to the men than those that are happy, and so compared to singles...

I am childfree though. I do know I would have been miserable as a parent. Not bad at it I am sure but absolutely miserable. It would have meant too many sacrifices of things that are very important and central to the meaning I have found/chosen to give to my own life.

TeiTetua · 25/05/2019 19:23

For what it's worth, the study I remember (as opposed to the ones I turned the page on) said that married women were either the happiest or the least happy group among adults. If they have a decent husband and children who aren't in trouble, then life can feel very good. But if those things aren't there, you know who's going to feel all the weight.

The same study, or maybe another one, said that the people who reported the lowest level of happiness were adolescent girls. That was a few years ago and probably in America, but maybe it's universal.

And "A woman will never be happier than her least happy child"--it might be true.

Needmoresleep · 25/05/2019 19:36

The Mail has found some different research that says lesbians are happiest of all mol.im/a/7068965

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 25/05/2019 19:55

Guessing that research was done before lesbian dick became a thing Needmoresleep .

ScrimshawTheSecond · 25/05/2019 21:01

Prawn, sending best wishes. I'm sorry for your loss.

I agree, so many variables. Definitions of 'happiness' is tricky to begin with, and I suspect circs change enormously over a lifetime.

MenstruatorExtraordinaire · 25/05/2019 22:06

I think the happiest people are supposed to be lesbians followed by straight married men. So having a relationship with a woman seems to be the best thing to do. We women clearly rock.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 25/05/2019 23:22

I did it all in the opposite order most people do. As a fiery young feminist I took sex where I chose (mostly) but was determined to steer clear of domesticity.

I lived by the classic slogan "It starts when you sink in his arms, then ends with your arms in his sink". I would have relationships but forget the wifework.

Then I met DH. I was 30. And in four short years I was a mum. He changed everything for me. This was a man who I totally trusted. He understood my horror of domesticity. He became a SAHF while I worked to build a business that kept us all. He was my biggest fan. We were always laughing.

I think being in a faithful relationship with someone who you really enjoy and admire is the best thing in the world.

Thanks for the kind words, ScrimshawTheSecond.

Pimmsnlemonade · 26/05/2019 08:59

The Mail has found some different research that says lesbians are happiest of all mol.im/a/7068965

Hmm...I clicked on the link and then clicked on the 'read more' link which took me here:
www.thesun.co.uk/news/9150964/lesbians-promotions-happier-in-office-study/

At the bottom of the article is a video entitled "I was married to my husband for 18 years and then he transitioned into a woman - now we live happily together as lesbians."

...which gets me wondering about these stats and what kind of 'lesbians' were included. If the inclusion of transwomen skews general female statistics, the impact will be much more pronounced within the group of lesbians because (female, homosexual) lesbians are a very small group while many transwomen identify as lesbians.

Pimmsnlemonade · 26/05/2019 09:18

In terms of the pay gap between heterosexual women and (actual) lesbians, rather than employers preferring lesbians, I think it's simply that straight women in relationships are often expected to put their husband's career first and take primary responsibility for childcare and have to do work which fits in around that. They do then benefit from the male wage (so aren't financially worse off while in the relationship) but, if the relationship ends, they can end up in a worse situation - plus they are probably more likely to be making job choices based on these other factors rather than which job would give them the most satisfaction.

I have seen stats that suggest lesbians are much less likely to be out at work than gay men and I think we are particularly unlikely to blurt it out in a job interview so I'm dubious that hiring decisions are being made on that basis. I was out in one job, where I was repeatedly harassed due to my sexuality by one individual, ostracised by everyone else and ended up with poor mental health and having to take a lower paid job just to get out of there. I've never been out at work since.

HelenaDove · 26/05/2019 19:22

Im child free by choice and married. I knew i couldnt cope with the hard 24/7 work of being a mum and i knew that from a young age.

Prawn im sorry for your loss Your late DH sounds fabulous. Thanks

Pimms thats disgusting. My niece is gay and we have often had the discussion about how homophobia is not taken as seriously when gay women are on the receiving end. Thanks

Jb291 · 26/05/2019 19:26

Very happy being single and childless. I've watched both of my siblings have traumatic and acrimonious ends to their marriages and have no desire to shackle myself to anyone and end up in the same situation.

Kilbranan · 26/05/2019 19:30

Becoming a mum has been my greatest joy but I do have a supportive husband who does more than his fair share of domestic duties (a lot more than me) while I’m out at work. I have a very fulfilling career too as well as having good relationships with extended family. I can’t imagine feeling happier on my own however I realise i am particularly lucky in my home life. Lots of my friends have husbands who refuse to do any housework/cooking/ childcare and that would drive me crazy! I chose very carefully to find a life partner but am astonished with what some men get away with at home

PetrichorRain · 26/05/2019 19:34

I desperately wanted a child and even though DS drives me crazy, if we hadn't been able to have him, there would be a massive hole in our lives. On a day to day level though, I was happier before I had him. I think I've read that the happiest adults are those who don't have or, crucially, WANT children.

PetrichorRain · 26/05/2019 19:35

That should read, don't have and, crucially, don't want children.

pallisers · 26/05/2019 19:36

Dh told me about this study a couple of days ago and said he wasn't surprised.