Expectations of mothers includes financial abuse?

[clairemcnam]

We all know that mothers do much more than their fair share of housework, childcare and cooking than fathers in the vast majority of relationships. But there also seems to be an increasing expectation that as well as this, mothers should be contributing 50% of the family costs. Given that mothers are on average paid less than fathers, this means that mothers are being expected to contribute financially a larger proportion of their earnings to the family pot than fathers.

So mothers are now being expected increasingly to contribute more than 50% to raising a child on all fronts.

You both work, you both share the childcare, housework, etc.
But it's things like remembering when it's an INSET day, when homework has to handed in, when the school fayre is and when it's DC's birthday so have to take a bag of sweets in to school to share out with the class.
It's remembering when it's P.E. so getting the sports kit ready.
Remembering to fill in the form for the school trip.
Not forgetting to put your name down for parent's evening.
It's all the little crap things like that that seem to get left to the woman. And it's those little things that drain the woman, not the man.

@clairemcnam - I meant a more substantial sum to carers (which would be cheaper than care home). Really we should have an insurance system that covers this.

@jessica - my DH does more of that because I have an antisocial job - so it can happen. I guess maybe men and women may tend to have different priorities (eg men may not think the bag of sweets is important). So maybe women ‘make work for themselves’ (I don’t totally hold this opinion, but just wanted to say that it can be one way to interpret it)

SAHPs do all sorts of things that are better for the environment because they have time to take care of things rather than throw money at problems

That is a sweeping and unsubstantiated generalisation.

It's all the little crap things like that that seem to get left to the woman. And it's those little things that drain the woman, not the man

Well aside from that being another sweeping generalisation why not do something about it. There's a lot of martyrdom on this thread. Are adult women really so incapable of speaking to their husbands/partners and resolving these issues?

@LassOfFyvie
Well aside from that being another sweeping generalisation why not do something about it. There's a lot of martyrdom on this thread. Are adult women really so incapable of speaking to their husbands/partners and resolving these issues?
I hate the martyrdom argument that always sits alongside arguments about choice. The implication is that it's women's issue to resolve and if only women were strongest/firmer/better then women could unilaterally alter the balance of responsibilities that have become entrenched in so many relationships. In reality we all know that women can only do so much and there are so many factors that work towards mothers taking responsibility for parenting tasks and responsibilities.

To start with a mother trying to share these kinds of responsibilities with the father may well be met with resistance from the father themselves who have been conditioned to believe that she should be responsible for these things as that was his mother did/his friends' partners do. She would also have to work through the guilt and worry of what might happen if the father doesn't fulfil these obligations properly which will ultimately adversely impact their innocent child. So many threads on MN are made by women lamenting the apparent fact that their high earning professional DP is incapable of doing the most basic of domestic tasks. Many posters will respond pointing out that it's probably not a capability but a willingness issue, however it's hard for a mother to persevere when they think that their child is a victim in the process. Finally a mother would also have to deal with the judgement and stigma that society assigns specifically to "bad" mothers. We have been conditioned as a society to think that when it comes to parenting ultimately the buck stops with the mother and she should be the ultimate protector of her child's best interests.
If a child misses a trip because their parents didn't hand in a form or is left without a lunch at school most people (men and women) would predominantly blame the mother.

I think it's really unfair and inaccurate in this context to accuse women of martyrdom when they are left shouldering responsibility for this work!

I am so glad I was born at a time of being able to exercise choice around having children. I reached a very clear crossroads in my early 30s re promotion or children. I chose the latter although maintained a well paid career as well. My work ethic means that along the way I have picked up the slack in the domestic sphere...I buy the cushions, the Christmas tree, the school things, the baking tins...for me but also to create a comfortable home and life for my children Children young adults now but, menopausal me, my perspective is it is mainly unappreciated and I am pretty knackered....my DH thinks I am a spent old whore who should know where everything is, create family events without effort or spend and arrange and pay for the next family holiday with my money ( he needs his for his hobbies). I sometimes think HRT, anti depressants, prosecco (none of which I use) are just about getting us to STFU and keep the show on the road ready for doing the next bit of undervalued work .... looking after elderly relatives. Not sure about financial abuse but the work and effort of caring is valued so little economically within the home and in wider society.

Are adult women really so incapable of speaking to their husbands/partners and resolving these issues?
It seems that on MN women know men well enough to have a child but not well enough to have an honest conversation.

my DH thinks I am a spent old whore who should know where everything is, create family events without effort or spend and arrange and pay for the next family holiday with my money ( he needs his for his hobbies)

Women working outside the home can indeed lead to scenarii where men get an even cushier deal than they did previously.

I definitely see this among other women (like I am) who earn more than their male partners. In every case the woman does far more of the home and child care of an equivalent male breadwinner

I notice the unfairness. Outside of daytime childcare (which is a shared cost), I do all the jobs my mother did, plus earn more. It's not DH per se - though he definitely doesn't notice all the jobs I do - also our own internal expectations and those of society

Again why not speak to your husband? You have the ability to have a career where you earn far more than him but not the ability to deal with this? This has nothing to do with "society". It is between you and him.

my DH thinks I am a spent old whore who should know where everything is, create family events without effort or spend and arrange and pay for the next family holiday with my money ( he needs his for his hobbies)

Stop doing it then

Our society does not value children or childrearing at the moment at all and we're storing up huge problems for the future, in my opinion

Yes.

And whoever said that women are expected to work like they don't have children, and raise children like they don't work

Spot on.

It distresses me when I see some saving for their maternity leave. That's not progress, and that sure isn't equality. That's just another stick to beat women with.

How have we gotten to a point in our society where we completely ignore and undervalue the realities of bringing children into this world? Pregnancy IS physically and emotionally hard. Children NEED to be nurtured- this means basic AND emotional needs being met.

Genuine care for others seems to have fallen by the wayside in favour of "equality".

Surely if one parent is home, and has time to get the housework done, you'd just do it, rather than expecting your partner to come home and then do half? Never mind if it's equal, isn't that just being a grown up, and having some kindness for your partner?

Surely if one parent is home, and has time to get the housework done, you'd just do it, rather than expecting your partner to come home and then do half? Never mind if it's equal, isn't that just being a grown up, and having some kindness for your partner?

Absolutely. My partner and I are always looking out for each other, trying to make each other’s life a bit easier, do things around the house for each other. That’s what partnership and love is, to me. In saying that, I know others don’t have that and don’t blame women for undervaluing themselves and feeling like they need to do everything to make up for not earning as much or because societal pressures etc I mean, I don’t think our schools have ever rung my husband about anything, he didn’t get the endless fundraising or get-together emails from the parents groups, ( I asked for dads to be added! ). The expectation on mother’s exist and it is hard to fight them all the time, especially if you’re already tired.

@LassOfFyvie
Again why not speak to your husband? You have the ability to have a career where you earn far more than him but not the ability to deal with this? This has nothing to do with "society". It is between you and him
That's so incredibly naive and simplistic. If this is just between her and her husband then why is this particular split of responsibilities evident in the vast majority of family setups? Of course society has played a role in shaping her DH's and her own expectations, nobody exists in a vacuum and is immune to socialisation.

I am a SAHM and controversially split the housework with my husband. Many on MN would tell you that this is unreasonable even though I know that our set-up is fair and we both devote comparable amounts of effort and time to the activities required to support the overall well-being of our family. Despite this when I hear from other women and men how I *should" be doing the majority of housework I am not immune to feeling guilty and pressured to take on more. Socialisation and expectations are powerful and very very difficult to challenge.

This is such an interesting thread - thanks Clairemcnam. It really goes to the heart of so many tensions in relationships. Goosefoot & Ineedacupofteadesperately mentioned that they thought feminism had not really tackled this. What’s strange is that it was the Big Thing in first wave feminism, which really emphasised women’s unpaid work. Somebody else will have to explain why later on other issues seemed to assume more importance because I don’t know why.

When I was young I thought the arrangement whereby both partners paid equal amounts to household (including child care) and kept the remainder for themselves was fairest. It’s only now that I realise that the partner who earns most benefits more from this. I think that in the first flush of romance it’s hard to talk about money, although several posters here clearly have found a system that works for them.

Several posters mentioned women spending their money on children while their male partners don’t. We can NAMALT all we like but there is so much research showing many women do end up in this position. I’m linking to a blog here as a lot of the articles are in paywall journals:

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/universal-credit-family-structure/

Anyway, thanks again everyone. This went down a treat with my coffee.

That's so incredibly naive and simplistic. If this is just between her and her husband then why is this particular split of responsibilities evident in the vast majority of family setups? Of course society has played a role in shaping her DH's and her own expectations, nobody exists in a vacuum and is immune to socialisation

Yes, blame "socialisation" and carry on doing nothing about it. Of course it is between her and her husband- who else is going to sort it out? "Socialisation" doesn't seem to prevent her earning more than her husband but apparently prevents her discussing their own domestic arrangements?

Namenic That would be very expensive. An insurance system you paid into since you were 18 could work. But that does not help those who are now getting older. Sadly they were told when young that national insurance was an insurance system and would pay. But they are now too old for an insurance system to work.

What’s strange is that it was the Big Thing in first wave feminism, which really emphasised women’s unpaid work. Somebody else will have to explain why later on other issues seemed to assume more importance because I don’t know why.

I'm simplifying things but as memory serves it went - Wages for Housework - Sex is Work - Sex Work is Work - Second Wave/Third Wave 'sex positive' split.

@clairemcnam - agree. I meant insurance at 18 - govt backed. But yes - bad for the current generation who have had to work, do a lot of unpaid caring for relatives and govt has not done much to protect them. In fact they have avoided sorting out the social care situation...

In the majority of the couples I know the men all do more or at least the same level of housework. In those couples the women all work, some earning more than their dh's. With regards to research, we all know that certain types of people will respond. Nobody has ever asked me! My dh is at home now moving furniture, hoovering, mopping etc and has been doing it for a few hours whilst I had a lie in. so men doing less housework is not my experience at all.

If I stop doing what I do or had stopped in the past my DC would have suffered - that is the difficulty. I have had numerous discussions but it always ends up with me having to set out what needs doing and DH refusal to do some things, suggestion that I pay a cleaner or subcontract the work (incl. DIY, gardening)...plus no proactive support. Looking back for me it started before children (and was part of my socialisation growing up) but it ramps and you become the default drudge...

Completely agree with everything Megthehen has said.

I'm glad to be a single mum sometimes, not having to navigate this tricky area. It's so painful to be taken advantage of when you're giving so much.

Thanks Thelnabriati, that explains why people like Julie Bindel were often dismissed, although events have proved her correct.

And megthehen yes, it is very easy to say ‘don’t put up with it’ but much harder when that decision affects children or other people negatively.

MummyShark That is unusual, and the research shows not the common experience. And there has been a lot of research on this area. When research actually tracks what mothers and fathers do, fathers always spend much less time on average doing housework and childcare than they say they do.

And yes, if fathers refuse to pay for things for the children like presents and birthday cards for a party they are going to, or for children to go to activities, then it is not surprising the mum just pays. Because most mums don't want their kids to miss out.

The storyline that goes “stop nagging me to clear up after myself. If you won’t, pay a cleaner to do it instead and anyway I don’t care about the filth” is so ubiquitous...

If a DP kept his place clean when he was single, then he does care about filth. He just knows his wife is going to clean it up.