Does anyone worry about being sacked over Trans debate?

[clairemcnam]

Just wondered if any of the feminists here worry they could be sacked for talking on social media about transgender issues? And can women do anything to mitigate against this happening?

*@isabellerossignol sorry to be ignorant but what do you think would happen in the toilets if you were in there at the same time as your transgender colleague?8

If you instinctively feel someone is a creep, and they make your skin crawl - you don't want to put yourself in a small enclosed space with them. Whether or not they " did" anything is not the point. It is the psychic discomfort that matters.

This is just the tip of a huge iceberg ....if so many women here know we can't talk about our concerns at work, there must be millions more that this is affecting. We must take this to the unions, where there are still some, especially in the public services. I no longer have to put up with this shit, but know that if women stand together we can change attitudes. So many are silenced it is certainly a struggle. Admiration for those of you dealing with this on a daily basis.

Fortunately, I'm no longer in paid employment and so pretty much my own person.

If you are fearful of talking to your colleagues because they might snitch on you, it must be awful. These really are Orwellian times - where the 'party' has its spies everywhere.

I am also in a very woke organisation (civil service)

However we have one or two mtf in the office, and general feeling/discussion is if they want to be called susan and come to work in a dress then that is entirely their choice. However it does not make them female.

That may not translate to public speech or social media- i have a feeling the top management want to be seen as woke and may take it further if word got to them.

I have a mate in a job with strict uniform policy- Only grumbling they have is when trans colleagues aren’t pulled up when they flout uniform rules, make up is supposed to be minimal and hair neutral and tied back. Some apparently turn up with a full face and professional blow dries.

Absolutely. Very large public sector.

I'm not far off retirement though, so would kick up one hell of a fuss if necessary, although I've not been publicly GC thus far.

Slug ❤️

I find it a bit pathetic really. To be intimidated purely by being in the presence of someone else is ridiculous. Whatever their sex/gender. Are you saying that you can never be in a room with a transgender person without being "creeped out"? The fact that it's a toilet is irrelevant - women's toilets always have cubicles so I really don't understand the issue. Is it so difficult to wash your hands in the presence of a transgender person?

ArgyMargy

Did you not read isabelle's reply to your question? She said:

He is intimidating. He stands too close. He is also a male with a fetish and a history of domestic violence.

This is a violent man with a fetish. Nothing to do with being transgender.

Do you think violent men with fetishes should be allowed in women's spaces?

Toilets don't bother me Argy (though I, unlike you it would seem, do accept that other women may not see it this way). However, this issue is not just about toilets.

My local university's pool (open to the public at weekends) however, has open-plan, single sex changing rooms, no cubicles, no curtains. Would I want to see a person of indeterminate gender with their penis hanging out, even if they were changing into a tasteful one-piece and intending to tuck? No, I would not. Likewise, were I to go for a cervical smear expecting a female nurse and be confronted with someone who merely identified as female, I would not be happy about this. If I booked a sleeper berth, and found myself sharing with a be-penised individual, regardless of how that individual identified, I would not feel able to sleep (and that despite having shared mixed sex dorms in mountain huts - the one-on-one nature of a two berth sleeper would make me feel much more vulnerable).

You may be fine with all these situations, and if so, good on you, crack on and live your life how you choose. I however am not, and my boundaries and desire for single sex spaces where appropriate are every bit as important as your desire to signal that you don't give a shit, or (some) trans-identifying individual's desire to force the rest of the world to treat them as the sex they would like to be in all and every conceivable set of circumstances.

Yup getting banned for that

I find it a bit pathetic really, To be intimidated purely by being in the presence of someone else is ridiculous

Do you realise how ridiculous that makes you sound?

I find it a bit pathetic really

Such lack of empathy and listening skills are noted. Don't fire off questions if you are not prepared to listen to the responses. and if you aren't able or prepared to do that, then that will tell everyone all they need to know why unsympathetic men are not welcome in ladies' loos.

I don't worry so much about being fired, I worry about it making for a social problem. I work for a church, mostly with kids, and there are plenty of GC people and plenty who aren't. There is actually a slightly (in)famous trans advocate and her FtM child.

I think a few people suspect I am GC because it's come up from time to time in a discussion, but you don't ever know who you can talk to about things. So, it tends not to be discussed, or - only by people like the advocate who assumes everyone is in agreement.

Are you saying that you can never be in a room with a transgender person without being "creeped out"?

Some people; let's face it - usually men - give you the creeps. And it is a fact that for some men cross dressing and trying force their way into women's spaces is a fetish. Anyone with any sensitivity is aware of this and it is a disturbing and uncomfortable experience.

If cross dressing men and trans women want to use the toilet - then personally I think it best that they campaign for third spaces. That way everyone gets to feel safe, comfortable, and to retain their dignity.

If someone wants to force themselves into a space in which they are not welcome - that has to be something of an alarm signal, don't you agree?

I'll repeat my question: why does single-sex provision exist in the first place?
Work that out, and you have the answer to why some women don't want to share loos and dressing rooms with male colleagues or random men.

Yes I worry. My employer is woke, they have an LGBT network for employees, which I'm pretty sure only came about because of the T, it's a recent invention. I just have to keep quiet and not share my views.

ArgyMargy, you're being very offensive and misogynist.

NHS. Mandatory training is on line so no chance to challenge. Its a tick the right boxes and keep your mouth shut situation.

I am not scared of being in a loo with someone etc. Doesn't sorry me really. Loos have doors. it is rather that today at work, a college, I had to deal with someone, a student, accusing one of my colleagues who I line manage of transphobia and demanding she be sacked, because various students do not feel safe in her presence. That it what is pissing me off about all this. For so many reasons. I am prepared to listen and learn, but cancel culture...nah. but I have to be seen to be supportive .....what about my arguably not transphobic colleague though, whose livelihood and reputation is threatened....if I am not seen to be down with the student's complaint. Oh fuck..

Self I/d allows ALL men to access women and girls wherever they are.

NAMALT, we are assured. It will never happen, they scoff.

Yes, we reply, but the men who ARE like that (DV assailants, voyeurs, exhibitionists, sexual offenders and other pervs) are being handed the perfect cover by the state.

For me, the state has to provide the rationale for putting women and girls at heightened risk of crimes. I haven't seen anything yet - just empty reassurances that it will all work out in the end.

@ArgyMargy
Public loos are a popular locale for low level sexual assaults due to lack of security footage and witnesses. I definitely wouldn’t want to be alone in one/a similar space with someone I knew was dodgy regardless of gender identity.

@JC4PMPLZ but surely you wouldn’t indulge that? Emotional safety has no place in the work place.

I'm worried about losing my job if I say anything GC. Voluntary sector.

@ArgyMargy I don't know how you can say this stuff with a straight face: I find it a bit pathetic really. To be intimidated purely by being in the presence of someone else is ridiculous. Whatever their sex/gender. TRAs are demanding GC women be thrown off twitter, sacked from their jobs and prosecuted because they say the wrong words. Note because they do anything, just because of the words they use. If that isn't being a snowflake, I don't know what is.

*not