Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Maya Forstater

689 replies

DianeBrewster · 05/05/2019 09:40

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/05/2019 12:13

I am just worried she will lose on a technicality, like it being renewal of a short term contract rather than sacking from a permanent post. I am hoping someone on here knows their stuff on this and can shed some light.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/05/2019 12:19

I hate the way the DM calls it a 'spat'. It's far important than that.

Popchyk · 05/05/2019 12:20

"I am just worried she will lose on a technicality"

That may be true but the main thing is to generate publicity really.

This will wake a lot of people up. A lot of people who have had no knowledge of the genderist debate will come down on the side of people being able to articulate scientific facts without losing their employment as a result.

Bluestitch · 05/05/2019 12:21

I do like the way the DM have shown the offending tweets in full though, including references to Karen White, so readers can see for themselves perfectly sensible and eloquent arguments against self ID.

EvelynShaw · 05/05/2019 12:25

The irony of working for a think tank and getting fired for actually thinking.

Support her 100%

teawamutu · 05/05/2019 12:26

Donated and proud to do so. Delighted to see £21k raised in less than 24 hours - Maya, I'm so sorry about what happened but I admire your determination to use it to set us all free to tell the truth.

justicewomen · 05/05/2019 12:28

The Countess

The Equality Act protects those who are not given a job or have a job offer (including renewal of contract) withdrawn due to a protected characteristic see section 39(1)(c). Also note that employee in Equality Act is defined in broader terms than Employment Rights Act so can include contract workers etc.

Separately in the last deleted thread I mentioned some law. If any one has some specific legal questions (not on the case because I haven't seen the evidence) happy to try to answer

PencilsInSpace · 05/05/2019 12:32

Non-renewal of a fixed term contract still counts as a dismissal and employers still need to act fairly.

ACAS

If Maya can show that the reason her contract was not renewed was discrimination because of religion/belief then she has a strong case.

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 12:33

As someone stated in the last thread, the main thing is that this injustice is brought to as much public attention as possible. On a human and compassionate level, I really want you to win this Maya, but on a wider level the most important thing is the fact that, win or lose, this will help the public see what is really at stake, women’s rights and freedom of expression, regarding scientific reality.

Move over on the top of the peak, we need to make more room for the many, many people that will join us.

MenuPlant · 05/05/2019 12:34

This is appalling.

This whole situation, the wider one, shows up that women's rights were allowed by men but can be removed, that we can speak as long as we comply etc

The equality we had in paper was illusory.

As shown by the number of companies removing sex as a protected characteristic from policies and this going broadly unchallenged even though its illegal to do so.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/05/2019 12:39

Excellent.
Thank you, Justicewomen and Pencils.

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 12:46

RTFT PEOPLE!

This was from MNHQ on this thread.

So long as there is no mention of crowdfunding or encouragement towards the crowdfunding page on this thread, it can stand for now.

This was sent to me from MNHQ when I asked for clarification.

Thanks for the report and for asking the question. We won't allow any links to the crowdfunder or any specific posts asking people to go to it. We will delete any posts breaking TGs in this way. It really would be better if everyone just steered clear of mentioning the crowdfunder at all if we're honest, if you want to preserve the thread.

STOP MENTIONING THE THING THAT SHOULDN'T BE MENTIONED.

WalpurgisNight · 05/05/2019 12:51

Mamello Interesting about CDG's funding.

I work a little bit with the aid sector and tbh it does not exactly seem short on lots of highly educated men with saviour complexes, for whom safeguarding is an afterthought at best (c.f. the Oxfam scandal), and who I suspect would be more than happy to sign women's rights away in a blink if it they thought it would make them look woke. So the policy side of the sector is very vulnerable to this ideology, particularly if it has accompanying incentives like funding. I do hope there will come a point where people who work on the ground and understand the disconnect between the ideology and women's lived experiences will push back against it.

merrymouse · 05/05/2019 13:03

“You stated that a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality. A lot of people would find that offensive and exclusionary.”

How far are we willing to roll back women's rights so not to offend transpeople?

I find this whole thing terrifying.

Until 1990 - 3 years before the end of apartheid in South Africa - there were parts of Europe where women were still denied the right to vote in local elections. Switzerland didn't allow women to vote in federal elections till 1971. Nobody cared if they felt female.

Countries that force women to cover their heads in public don't make exceptions for women who claim to be 'deminonbinary'.

Women aren't less likely to become pregnant through unprotected heterosexual sex if they don't identify as female.

Women are denied the ability to participate equally in society because of our biological sex, not our identity. We cannot protect rights without the ability to name the people who need protection.

It's the same for any other protected characteristic. They are required because the characteristic intrinsically limits the practical ability to access human rights (e.g. elderly people may not have the ability to work therefore need pensions, a disability may reduce access to transport therefore buses must make special provisions); and because people suffer discrimination as a result of possessing that characteristic, regardless of their identity.

Bhutan has laws against sexual acts, not people with blue hair who go on Pride marches.

If it were possible to identify out of having a protected characteristic they wouldn't be necessary.

FiredMaya · 05/05/2019 13:08

Thanks for all the support. I am choked.

I will come back and read the whole thread when it has all calmed down (so please don't get this one zapped!)

Will answer give answers to questions as far as I can - although obviously there are limits on what I can say at this point. Might also try to drag @anyabike in here to meet you Grin

Not sure if anyone has linked to this already (and you may have read it before) but Julian Norman in the WPUK/ House of Lords thing talked about the idea of gender identity as a protected belief/lack or belief, which is what my case is about womansplaceuk.org/julian-norman-in-house-of-lords/

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 13:08

I love random numbers 22820

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 13:10

You’re very welcome Maya. We need more brave women like you. I hope you’re not getting too much hate online. Just be careful that you have all your passwords, etc locked down safely. There are bad people out there, but hopefully you’ll get comfort that the support is overwhelmingly in your favour. 💐

Bluestitch · 05/05/2019 13:11

Stuff like that will just help get this thread removed.

LangCleg · 05/05/2019 13:14

Might also try to drag @anyabike in here to meet you

Yes, please! I notice from various recent tweets that she has already been coercively assigned a connection with apparently malodorous MNers, so she may as well have one in that vanishing world of material reality!

HerFemaleness · 05/05/2019 13:18

''Women are denied the ability to participate equally in society because of our biological sex, not our identity. We cannot protect rights without the ability to name the people who need protection.''

Very well put.

ILoveMyNewRing · 05/05/2019 13:19

@FiredMaya - thank you for bringing this case

SophoclesTheFox · 05/05/2019 13:22

Solidarity, firedmaya. Anytime you need a boost or a break from people telling you your wrong think is hateful, drop in here for a fix of women supporting women. We’ve got a lot of that here and it’s magnificent.

Rollercoasteryears · 05/05/2019 13:41

Nothing major to add but just wanted to come on and add my support @firedmaya

Swipe left for the next trending thread