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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A Trans Former Editor At The Times Is Suing For Transphobic Bullying And Discrimination

82 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 04/05/2019 09:00

www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/patrickstrudwick/times-sued-transphobic-bullying-former-editor

I found this part particularly interesting:

As well as the standard employment law charges such as discrimination and victimisation, the case also rests on an argument that has never before been tested.

O'Donnell and her lawyer — Robin White of Old Square Chambers — allege that it wasn't just what happened in the newsroom but also what those inside it published in the newspaper about trans people that constituted a hostile, transphobic place to work.

Should O’Donnell be successful, therefore, it would mean a newsroom’s output could be deemed an internal, employment issue too. News outlets may in future have to consider how their coverage of trans people and other minority groups could be in breach of employment laws that protect members of these communities on their own staff from discrimination and bullying.

From reading the article it seems that this is quite a significant part of their case and it seems that this could be quite interesting to watch.

On the one hand it can be argued that this individual was subject to horrible bullying and her pleas for her employer to stop inciting public transphobia were ignored.

On the other it could be seen as a tale of an employer who simply could not cope with the demands of their employee who were demanding that didn't consider science in their discussion of a current issue.

OP posts:
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littlecabbage · 05/05/2019 07:56

In one example, she noted that the Times reported on the eminent scientist Dr Kate Stone being seriously injured by a stag by also mentioning in the headline that she was trans, despite it being irrelevant to the story.

It may be irrelevant to the fact KS was injured by a stag, but describing them as a "woman" without clarifying they are a transwoman, is a scientifically incorrect fact. A woman is an adult human female. The article is being polite if it describes them as a woman, but it would be a lie not to clarify that the term "woman" is used politely, rather than accurately.

If the media are banned from indicating when someone is trans, that is censorship.

LassOfFyvie · 05/05/2019 12:17

The picture from the buzzfeed article made me do a google - I don’t know many middle aged women barristers who would wear that skirt and boot combo...

In the 35 plus years I've been a solicitor I haven't seen any female solicitor, barrister or advocate of any age wear a skirt that short in a work situation.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 05/05/2019 13:26

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terryleather · 05/05/2019 14:03

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MoleSmokes · 14/05/2019 01:13

Christine Burns has published her "Witness Statement re Edinburgh Employment Tribunal involving Katherine O'Donnell" on her blog.

Full text here:

blog.plain-sense.co.uk/2019/05/the-statement-below-is-written-evidence_9.html

---

From the blog post (rather than the actual witness statement)

The intention of this statement was to help the tribunal to contextualise other evidence that it would likely encounter in the course of hearings that are expected to span six weeks. That includes more specific evidence pertaining to any changes in the approach of the Times and Sunday Times in recent years and whether that might be related to changes at a higher level in the organisation. The tribunal is not in itself an ‘investigation’ of the newspaper’s output; however, changes in that output, and the internal decisions creating any such output, do have bearing on questions about the climate within the organisation, as might be experienced by an employee who feels affected by the subject matter. This would be true regardless of the subject in question. In this case the context is the reporting of trans lives.

INTRODUCTION

(Christine's background, employment history, activism, etc. establishing credentials as a witness.)

PRESS COVERAGE — THE LONG VIEW

(Summary of UK coverage of trans issues in tabloid and broadsheet press up to 2016.)

TIMES COVERAGE FROM 2016 ONWARD

para 1 - Opening sentences give flavour of what is to come:

"The roots of what may be characterised as a ‘trans backlash’ appear in retrospect to have been sown in 2015 and they are not specifically because of the actions of trans people or any legislative moves. The context is that trans people were suddenly becoming more visible globally in the popular media."

para 2 - runs the "The Wrong Side of History" line. Christine presents the "no-platforming" of feminist speakers as being due to "changed social standards among the young" with "young people (not necessarily trans)" reacting to these "old-school writers".

Also the usual dismissal of "no-platforming" being nothing to do with Freedom of Speech because these feminists get published anyway, somewhere, even if they were "no platformed" as speakers. (Specious argument, IMHO).

"This new visibility was met by a resurgence of commentators such as Germaine Greer, Julie Bindel and Julie Burchill. As experienced older-generation observers we saw this as nothing new. They were ‘doing their thing’. However, the ground had shifted. Just as the ‘Me Too’ has caught out many famous figures in the United States, who discover that the world views their habits differently than before, social media and changed social standards among the young meant that these commentators did not enjoy the same ride as they had been used to. The story shifted to the reaction that young people (not necessarily trans) had towards the opinions of these old-school writers. Students would picket their talks or call for them to be disinvited. The story became falsely characterised as one of ‘Free Speech’ — although it should be noted that each of these writers had no shortage of high profile platforms to express their views. Some retreated to periodicals across the political spectrum: Spiked, The Spectator and the New Statesman. An article by Julie Burchill in the Observer was taken down by that paper’s editors only to be republished by the Telegraph."

para 4 - 2016 - first allegation that The Times and the Sunday Times are doing something different to the rest of the press. A different witness might perhaps have described this difference as, "engaging in investigative journalism" vs "reporting". Shock

"At this point (during 2016) The Times appears to have begun to take a unique path away from the pack. The Guardian and Telegraph (plus the tabloid Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday) continued to report the story. The Times and Sunday Times began (in my view) to MAKE the story in an increasingly worrying fashion."

para 5 - Christine has a pop at Rod Liddle.

para 6 - 2017 - I have only started reading The Times recently so I was gobsmacked to learn from this how much coverage there was of trans issues!

Extract:

"That pattern changed markedly in 2017, however — and it changed uniquely for the Times. Over the course of that year the Times and Sunday Times published over 130 items — mostly news and op-ed, with news becoming the dominant position in both papers as the year progressed. Almost all could be said to be negative, with varying degrees of careful deniability. This was not normal in any sense. The level of coverage (averaging almost 3 items a week) was more than an order of magnitude greater than anything the two titles had previously published. "

para 7 - Christine has a pop at The Times editorial standards ("abandoned"), lack of balance in stories, lack of expertise, bias of contributors, "a small cohort of commentators who had appeared as if from nowhere to be interviewed as authorities on a regular basis" (how very DARE they!) and slips in the hint of an allegation of anti-semitism, "Conspiracy theories about the involvement of jewish billionaires . . . "

para 8 - Chrstine goes for the jugular, opening with a general polemic along the lines, "What a shower of imbeciles!" Editorial standards now even worse than when they were "abandoned", etc.

Then some specific complaints:

". . . the basis for many stories was later established to be false. False interpretation of statistics about trans prisoners and offending. Unbalanced reporting of the nature of the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act, presenting only a one-sided pejorative view of the implications. False insinuation about the leadership of the trans charity Mermaids — even after the Heritage Lottery Fund had reexamined plans to award a grant to them in 2018."

para 9 - Editorial control is the problem - not clarified whether due to continued lack of it or suddenly there is some but it is the wrong sort.

para 10 - Everyone else everywhere else in the world is happy but the problem in the UK is . . . The Times!

" . . . there is no moral panic to compare with that conjured up in Britain and championed by The Times."

para 11 - The Times has a "vendetta" against trans people!

I cannot work out what Christine means by the final sentence of her witness statement - I cannot parse it at all.

"Finally, I come back to the point that the Times coverage of these affairs since late 2016 and the beginning of 2017 is of a level sufficient to qualify as a vendetta. There is no historical precedent. Neither the Times nor the rest of the press showed excessive (let alone obsessive) concern when the matters in question were originally being framed. Indeed, many of the articles in question proceed as though trans people have only suddenly surfaced as a subject for moral panic in the last 3-4 years, disregarding generations of low key and episodic reporting before."

TheMostBeautifulDogInTheWorld · 14/05/2019 10:12

". . . the basis for many stories was later established to be false."

Burns supplies no evidence for this claim, that I can see? As far as I'm aware the only IPSO ruling on trans-related coverage in the Times was this one www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=07454-18 which found in favour of the Times in every respect.

Needmoresleep · 14/05/2019 10:23

The Mail’s stance on Brexit has changed (softened) noticeably over the past year or so. Does that mean a Brexiteer member of staff, with some sort of discrimination complaint, could object to a change in editorial policy?

R0wantrees · 14/05/2019 10:45

that includes more specific evidence pertaining to any changes in the approach of the Times and Sunday Times in recent years and whether that might be related to changes at a higher level in the organisation. The tribunal is not in itself an ‘investigation’ of the newspaper’s output; however, changes in that output, and the internal decisions creating any such output, do have bearing on questions about the climate within the organisation, as might be experienced by an employee who feels affected by the subject matter. This would be true regardless of the subject in question. In this case the context is the reporting of trans lives.

The specific deliberate attempts by prominant TRAs to attempt to silence the Times/Sunday Times has been ongoing for some time.
For example:

This was evident in the Home Affairs Hate Crime enquiry & Stephen Doughty MPs particular focus on Janice Turner:

James Kirkup:
(extract)
Surely a bright, thoughtful chap like him didn’t mean to imply that it was his job as Member of Parliament to tell newspapers what they can and cannot write? Surely he had no intention of acting as if it is in any way appropriate for a politician to decide what is and is not acceptable for journalists to say, and how they say it? And I can only hope that it was by a simple accident that he singled out by name a female journalist and suggested that her employers stop her saying the things that she thinks – because Doughty happens not to like her saying those things?

As I say, I must assume that he meant none of these things, that he had no such moronic and bullying intent when he spoke and acted as he did. I assume that Doughty is an honourable politician determined to do his job in a democracy and ensure that matters of public policy are debated fully and honestly, whether or not some people find such debate offensive. Because, as I am sure Doughty knows, there is no right not be offended and if we ever let hurt feelings stop us discussing matters of public interest on the basis of the facts, everyone loses." (continues)
blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch) attack on Janice Turner & failed IPSO complaint against the Times:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393577-Janice-Turner-accused-of-causing-trans-suicides

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3569148-Vindication-for-Janice-Turner-IPSO-complaint-result

Zoe O'Connell failed IPSO complaint against Andrew Gillingham:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3263172-Andrew-Gilligan-Latest-bullying-transgender-complaint-swiftly-rejected-by-parliamentary-standards-committee

(I also think there's a failed allegation by Owl against The Times/Gilligan but don't have link to it. To do with prison statistics?)

Edward Lord letter to Rebekka Brooks seeking censoring of Andrew Gilligan:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3459026-Edward-Lord-asking-the-Sunday-Times-to-censor-Andrew-Gilligan

I have a memory of Jane Fae talking on the BBC Sunday discussion program about building some sort of tool to use against what Fae regards as 'anti trans' newspaper.

theOtherPamAyres · 14/05/2019 10:47

@Mole

Thank you for the swift precis. Flowers

Burns makes some sweeping statements like "this was found to be false" and "this was due to increasing visibility of trans people".

Those are opinions, unless there is supporting evidence. Burns can expect to be cross-examined and made to substantiate the claims. Journalists, on the other hand, tend to do their homework in preparation for publication of news stories and opinion articles.

The fact is that some journalists were uncovering a huge story of regulatory and policy capture. In doing so, they found that politicians were too scared to involve themselves and were prepared to put women and children's rights and welfare at risk rather than examine the rise of transgenderism. In doing so, they faced threats and the likes of Burns who misrepresents what they were doing and why.

If it weren't for the free press, self i/d would continue its stealth-like, slow creep.

DuMondeB · 14/05/2019 11:00

R0 - do you mean this Owl thing?

One supporter of sex self-ID and non-binary trans campaigner, Owl Fisher, wrote a defamatory newspaper article, full of inaccuracies, in the Independent newspaper, accusing me of ‘guesswork and fearmongering’. Worryingly, the Independent is one of the few national newspapers that has not signed up the Independent Press Standard Organisation (IPSO) so this damaging and unreliable attempt to debunk my study remains on-line. We have now instructed lawyers to have the article removed.

(This was settled out of court, the Independent paid FPFW an undisclosed sum and the article had a correction added to it)

The Sunday Times article reporting our study findings was also attacked and found itself under investigation after a complaint made to the Press Ombudsman. The complaint has been fully rejected by IPSO who recognised the importance of our research “This was a matter of significant public interest, particularly in the absence of official figures on the issue”

fairplayforwomen.com/prison-data-confirmed/

The IPSO complaint on the trans prisoner story was another one filed by O’Connell:

www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=20177-17

R0wantrees · 14/05/2019 12:36

para 11 - The Times has a "vendetta" against trans people!
I cannot work out what Christine means by the final sentence of her witness statement - I cannot parse it at all.

That such beliefs might become accepted and widely held was demonstrated in the recent LBC interview with Andrew Gillingham & Benjamin Butterworth.
Butterworth is a journalist with some influence & weekend editor for the Independent.
In what should have been a discussion about serious Safeguarding concerns about the transitioning of very young children within their fostered family, Butterworth sought to make wider claims/allegations about 'anti trans' ('vendetta'?) media eg The Times.

Confirmation bias is a powerful thing.
Propaganda is a powerful tool.

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3584443-lbc-debate-on-s-times-foster-children-article

OrchidInTheSun · 14/05/2019 13:06

Was it Whittle that crowed that they had managed to sneak the GRA in under the radar?

Less keen on the sunlight it seems

R0wantrees · 14/05/2019 13:55

Was it Whittle that crowed that they had managed to sneak the GRA in under the radar?

Christine Burns definitely made comment about 'under the radar'

On a MN FWR thread last year critcising his irresponsible use of suicide, Stephen Whittle said with some confidence ( boast / brag / /swagger/ gloat/ crow?) that the TRA community have Labour in the bag:

"In the end we will pull ourselves together and continue the campaigning – as we have always done. We know we have Labour behind this one, so will simply do our best to get them elected. As I tell the community “we have always lost more battles than we have won, but we only ever need to win the big one”.

I hope that clarifies matters."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398127-Stephen-Whittle-influential-TRA-asserts-We-know-we-have-Labour-behind-this-one-so-will-simply-do-our-best-to-get-them-elected-Corbyn-seems-to-confirm-this-at-Pink-News

MoleSmokes · 14/05/2019 20:27

Thanks everyone for the commentary, clarifications, links and flowers!

Christine's "Introduction" and "Press Coverage - The Long View" are interesting reading but I thought I would cut to the chase with the précis.

I still do not know what Christine means by the very last last sentence - I cannot work out any way of re-writing it that makes sense!

R0wantrees · 14/05/2019 20:31

DuMondeB
Yes thank you.
I conflated the the issues with Owl-Fairplay for Women & the unfounded IPSO complaint against the Times.

RobinMoiraWhite · 14/05/2019 22:38

Thanks for the style advice...

theOtherPamAyres · 14/05/2019 23:23

The so-called statement spends too time on Christine Burns and very little on the perceived vendetta by the Times. Greer, Bindel and Burchill are given a significant proportion of space, without any explanation as to why those three commentators have anything to do with the hearing. Burns reminds us that the purpose of the statement is to 'contextualise'.

There isn't a single supporting reference, link to evidence or example of bad faith reporting. There is, however, a great deal of padding and a high word count. It is biased and amateurish and not the sort of statement you would expect from a witness purporting to be an expert on the impact of press reporting on trans lives.

R0wantrees · 15/05/2019 12:11

Re prominant TRA campaigners focus on The Times/Sunday Times:

April 2019 Tara Hewitt senior NHS advisor, recently promoted to band 8A [44 - 51k] , founder of TELI (with Jess Bradley & Michelle Hudson) response to the reporting of serious whistleblown Duty of Care concerns by medical professionals from NHS Tavistock childrens clinic:

Tara Hewitt (Twitter) "Yet today The Times has FOUR transphpbic articles targeting trans children. This is sick cruel abuse"

"Its horrific but also similar to the scare mongering targeting migrant communities and islamophobia. Some in the media simply seek out marginalised groups to hang their click bait approaches using hate as a marketing tool."

When asked, "Is there any action we can take to put pressure on the media to stop this bullshit witch hunt?"

Tara Hewitt replied, "Other than the usual, write to the editor, your MP, @ IpsoNews ask other people to do the same. Etc"

twitter.com/Tara_Hewitt/status/1115129452684558336

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385533-Prominant-campaigning-role-of-Tara-Hewitt-NHS-TELI-Social-work-universities-etc?watched=1&msgid=87076372#prettyPhoto

context:
House of Lords meeting today with panel of medical professionals outlining some of the serious failures of Duty of Care towards children & vulnerable adults impacted by trans rights' activism/lobbying.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3586228-Important-Standing-For-Women-House-of-Lords-Meeting-today-First-Do-No-Harm-The-ethics-of-transgender-healthcare-hosted-Lord-Moonie-focus-on-the-Duty-of-Care

thread discussing the Times articles which Hewitt considers 'sick abuse' .
This illustratesTara Hewitt's failure to understand or respect Safeguarding frameworks intended to protect children & vulnerable adults including the importance of taking seriously whistleblowing in NHS:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3553935-Times-article-calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children

FreeFreesia · 15/05/2019 12:33

.

Outanabout · 15/05/2019 12:39

Could Irish employees take a newspaper to tribunal if it did a series of investigations about Irish terrorists, or a Muslim employee object to articles about grooming gangs in Rotherham? Where does it end?

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 15/05/2019 17:26

the basis for many stories was later established to be false. Times been doing stories about suicide stats by any chance? Those are the worst false narrative ones IMO, making out loads of young children are killing themselves, despite knowing that stories with these inflated stats, have the potential to actually increase ideation.

False interpretation of statistics about trans prisoners and offending.

Ah those are the worst aren't they, when some people make up entire articles about how feminists have it wrong about the amount of males in prison for sex attacks. And then it has to be retracted because basically, MOJ figures match up (and it turns out, the numbers were not high enough, in actuality) and the piece was nothing but a smear. Sure this is not what Burns had in mind though. But yeah, its ridiculous when that happens eh?!

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 15/05/2019 17:29

Indeed, many of the articles in question proceed as though trans people have only suddenly surfaced as a subject for moral panic in the last 3-4 years, disregarding generations of low key and episodic reporting before."

However, as we already know, this is not about transsexuals, who have been around for a long time. The reason for the increase in coverage about 'transgender' stuff, is that..well there has been a huge explosion in the amount of people claiming a 'trans identity'. Just ask the Tavistock..

R0wantrees · 15/05/2019 17:37

However, as we already know, this is not about transsexuals, who have been around for a long time. The reason for the increase in coverage about 'transgender' stuff, is that..well there has been a huge explosion in the amount of people claiming a 'trans identity'. Just ask the Tavistock..

Its the realisation of the consequences on policies & legislation of lobbying behind the scenes which has been going on for a long time by some transactivists including some transsexuals.

The #ManFriday action, formation of Women's groups such as WPUK, Fairplay for Women etc last year were significant in ending what had been for a long time contained as 'no debate'

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/05/2019 18:21

Twitter threads about case:

twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1129317891512381446?s=09

twitter.com/jamesdoleman/status/1129367654010114048?s=09

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/05/2019 18:22

Not looking good for the Times at the moment.

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