Rape crisis centre - staff trained to “ask the cis guest to leave”

[2BthatUnnoticed]

I know most trans are perfectly nice people just living their lives, who need the same services as everyone.

Re rape crisis centres, I think a way to balance everyone’s needs would be dedicated facilities for transwomen.

Remember, a TW may choose to:

• have zero hormonal or surgical treatment, hence retain their pre-transition physiology and facial hair
• dress like a man (see “trans butch lesbian)

In other words, it may be impossible to discern their gender identity visually (the training covers this).

Also, Self-ID would mean that transition requires only a stat dec. We know men will abuse this, anyone who thinks otherwise is living in a privilege bubble.

WPUK article:

"The silencing of feminists silences survivors"

Dear Sisters,

I’m writing as a feminist who has devoted over two decades of my life to ending violence against women (VAW). I’ve worked in frontline services in both domestic abuse and sexual violence services across the country and now I head up a VAW sector charity. (continues)

As someone who has worked with many survivors of violence over the last two decades, I am terrified – both professionally and personally – about the impact of self ID on ensuring safe spaces are available to women who have experienced and are escaping male violence. Even without the legal changes to the GRA, gender inclusive policies are already happening in many areas, these changes are ahead of the law and already upon us. Moreover they do not appear to be slowing down.

Organisations in the VAW sector can use the Equality Act 2010 for the protection of female-only spaces and I absolutely think we should. I’ve worked with so many female survivors of violence who have been left terrified of men, and who relied on female-only support to heal from the trauma they experienced. The sex-based nature of the crimes they’ve experienced necessitates this being women who share their histories, experiences, vulnerabilities and, yes, biologies. So it is right that VAW-service providers have a strong case to make for protections that enable them to employ and provide access to women on the basis of their sex." (continues)

This is why I recently attended a Woman’s Place UK meeting, where I made a plea to the women and men there to understand the growing fear in the VAW sector of speaking up on this issue. Even in a room sympathetic to my concerns, I felt a deep sense of fear as I shared my concerns, which I feel is a strong testament to the threatening environment facing women who dare to even ask questions about self-ID. I am delighted to say there was strong support in the room and a pledge that those who can do so without fear of consequence will speak up on the behalf of VAW services.

The fear I felt that night led me to reflect on the similarities between the silencing of feminists by trans activists and the lived reality of male violence. (see screenshot for table that follows) continues...
womansplaceuk.org/the-silencing-of-feminists-silences-survivors/

"The writer of this post has subsequently written an Open letter to Women’s Aid and Rape Crisis England calling for them to speak up."
womansplaceuk.org/an-open-letter-to-womens-aid-and-rape-crisis-england/

Some more from Welsh Women's Aid:

Services will aim to create a safe environment for transgender people to disclose, and to generate open discussion about gender to promote greater understanding and combat discrimination against transgender service users. This is essential in residential services where families live in close proximity. A service user’s transgender status may be unintentionally revealed, for example, through the shared use of facilities such as the bathroom.

Does that mean that women might not be told that they're sharing women's services with someone with a penis, until they see it in a shared bathroom?

A case by case basis doesn't mean by individual person, the word "case" is wider than that. Welsh Women's Aid have misinterpreted the Equality Act. It is not illegal to provide single sex services/spaces.

This is just depressing as fuck.

Which Rape crisis centre is this from, do you know? Something needs to be done to let them know that this is NOT OK.

I don't think males - however they identify - have any place in the women's sector (DV, rape crisis, etc) ever, ever, ever. Women working in that sector should never have to consider the needs of males, even if those males have genuine needs. And that's quite aside from the blindingly obvious needs of women's sector service users.

It's not for women to sort out. If abuse services are needed for trans people who are males, or gay men for that matter, then they should be provided. Separately.

Sick to the back teeth of women having to cater to men. Sick of it.

Many women who seek help from these services will have experienced gaslighting by their abusers.

And been offered programmes that help them understand exactly what gaslighting is and how to recognise it.

They are then subjected to gaslighting from the same service if they are being asked to accept that a male-bodied person is actually a woman.

And it is not the same as being tolerant of someone's religion, sexual orientation or ethnicity.

These rules have been written by people who have never been the victim of sexual abuse, domestic violence, coercive control or gaslighting.

Sick to the back teeth of women having to cater to men. Sick of it.

Me too.... and so is my 17 year old daughter. What the fuck do I say when someone is sick of it at 17?????

Totally sickening Jessica but thank goodness your daughter sees it so clearly and hasn't drunk the kool aid.

That training breaches the provisions of the Equality Act 2010 ... Schedule 3 sections 26, 27 and 28 are explicit:

it is legal to exclude males who claim to be women even if they prove the possession of a GRC via their Birth Certificate:

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/schedule/3/part/7/crossheading/singlesex-services

Oh she is a very strong, gender non conforming autistic teenager who is fiercely feminist and takes no shit. But she is already tired of it, and especially as despite serious challenges she does very well at school and knows already that once in the workforce, despite all her hard work, men will get an advantage over her regardless of ability or effort. She is enraged at the women’s groups folding to men so easily, especially those whose job it is to support abused women.

Given the examples of the abuse of self-id in the women's services sector, I am gobsmacked that I got deleted for pointing out that this happens on a different thread yesterday. And it's not just happening in Canada or the US but here in the UK. If you ever have the chance to talk to frontline workers in confidence, it will hammer how how important it is that we do not give in on this.

^hammer home, not hammer how!

She sounds amazing and you must be very proud of her. But yes, what a time to be a young woman and know that you have to face this shit fest as you start out in life.

I have so much admiration for young women who are not being suckered in (skin in the game here) and as older women we have a great responsibility to support them.

I've never felt more depressed and hopeless about this issue. I believe this is a done deal now. It's gone too far and there is no way back. Gradually this will continue to be implemented and will become the new normal. In a few decades no one will even remember what is was like for women to have their own spaces and language. I want to be wrong but I don't think I am.

Sorry what’s “cis?”

Yeah, it is depressing... I’ve got Hyperprolactinemia so I cry a lot anyway but that combined with early menopause, and with it the menopause rage, and I’m a fucking angry sobbing mess at all this news

There are no specific services for trans people because trans people do not want them. What they want is women's services. (Note the total lack of transmen hammering on men's services). Being among women, particularly women undressing, sleeping, showering, toileting, is what it's about because it's validating, it's proof, and in some and arguably many cases, it's the thrill being sought in the first place. Women are necessary props.

Which is why people claiming to be women could not give a fuck about the needs, feelings or issues of women and only go on and on about their own needs and wishes, and why women must not be allowed to opt out or escape.

Which means, by default, surrender your boundaries and consent or you lose your human and civil rights for services.

The whole racism thing hacks me off beyond belief: ANY OTHER male is not allowed to enter a women's rape crisis centre. There is NO objective difference between a TW and a male if you are not a believer of genderism. A TW is not a 'different kind of woman'. It was polite lies and generosity in going along with any of this, pronouns included, that have pushed things to this utterly appalling point.

I share everyone's despair. Given that the trans organisations (including stonewall) are deluged with funding and influence it is beyond belief that they don't do what women did as we self funded and developed services for women - rape crisis, women's aid etc.

And as Michelleoftheresistance so eloquently points out - that's because selfish and self absorbed men are not remotely interested in developing resources for their communities. It is all about validation of the individual "ego" (that's my polite word) off the backs of women and women's work in order to satisfy whichever narcissistic urge is prominent. I know the edifice will eventually collapse as anything based on delusions and fetishes is always found out - in the end. But oh, the damage to women and children in the process.

I don’t think we should give up but I do think we might need to start again.
I’d happily contribute to a (new) refuge or rape crisis centre that clearly and openly applies the Equality Act and provides services for women only. Excluding men identifying as women.

Because males are more important.

Evidently .

@CarolDanvers

You see, I like to think that people will wake up and stop this from going any further. I like to tell myself that there has to be a cut off point where too many women will have been hurt and someone will say "enough is enough!"

But people don't actually give a shit about women, do they? It won't matter how many women suffer or get hurt as a result of this. People just won't care.

Note the total lack of transmen hammering on men's services

Is Mankind Initiative opening its services to transmen? Somebody should ask them.

There was no need to write the huge psychobabble bollocks list. All they had to write was, 'If women don't want males in their space, they can fuck right off.'

If they think women have much (or any) control over their trauma response they have no idea about trauma response, particularly in women traumatised as children. You don't feel safe because someone tells you to, you feel safe after months and possibly years of rebuilding your neural pathways in relationship with people who you trust.